The Captive Waters - Arctic home of the Vedas

@Soretna , the Rig Veda has several intriguing references to the "aerial waters" , or the "celestial waters" hunch is all such references are actually correlating with the massive rivers of Hollow Earth which carry enormous quantities of fresh water "outside" into the Arctic Ocean , via the Abyss (North Polar opening) . Also , the final descent (rather ascent from outer surface of Earth point of view) of these Hollow Earth rivers occurs through some sort of spiralling motion (whirlpool effect !)...

Therefore , those ancient images from Buddhist texts , depicting a strange ICE-FREE whirlpool at the North Pole are REAL (!!) , just that those cannot be seen in the Arctic Ocean on the surface , as this phenomenon occurs on the other side of the Polar Opening (inside Hollow Earth)...I am getting goose bumps with this sudden realisation - it hit me like a ton of bricks !

I now suspect that navigating a ship or small vessel from the Arctic Ocean , into Hollow Earth is especially challenging due the swirling waters of the whirlpool , on the other side (inside Hollow Earth) ! It might indeed be acting like a natural barrier , preventing vessels from outer surface of the Earth from reaching inside Hollow Earth . This may well be one of the reasons , why any sailors that did drift across did not survive to tell the tale - it could also explain why so many mammoths , still living inside the Hollow Earth , get trapped in that whirlpool and then freeze to death , as soon as they are "ejected" out into the Arctic Ocean on the surface...

Olaf Jansen and his father might just have gotten lucky to have achieved a safe passage through the North Polar opening :))

***I firmly believe all Hollow Earth researchers should thoroughly read up this chapter from "Arctic home of the Vedas" - it contains very deep insights about the whole Earth water cycle , something that cannot be found in any other text - ancient or modern .



Well, the Smokey God tells that Olaf and Jens were swept downwards into the hollow earth.

But what if there is an ingoing current, and an outward flowing current? Or more than one orifice, one being ingoing, and the other outgoing?

What if you tried to sail in, and chose the wrong one?


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@Soretna , @deandddd , there is a cryptic reference in "The Smoky God" , to the "ABNORMAL freshets of water , that twice every year , sweep everything before them" .

I think the above statement indicates something unusual happens at the place where the rivers of Hollow Earth , discharge their waters into the Arctic Ocean on the other side of the ABYSS , by spiralling downwards (rather upwards , from our perspective on the outer surface of Earth) ! This abnormality is probably explained by the whirlpool depicted in ancient Buddhist art...not just that , Arctic explorers have often mentioned , unusual tides in the far North , small gravel islands forming out of nowhere and the crushing sound of giant icebergs being tossed about , by some unknown force , near the North Pole (which is actually emerging from the North Polar opening)...


So @deandddd has hit upon my line of thinking with regards to multiple orifices. I think this is the key that everyone has been missing in these discussions as it makes the most sense with the previously discussed "thin" polar crusts.

Furthermore I think the concept and etymology of the word "ABYSS" is very important:

I think it is plausible to consider that the word abyss did not mean that to which we ascribe it today. It seems as though "abyss" was more of a conduit or passage instead of a place of seemingly infinite depth or a pit as is used today...

Can we dig into the root of "abyss" further? What was this word pre-Greek "abyssos" and the Hebrew "tehom"? They allude to some things in that article, but what other options do we have for seeking true meaning an intent? Sanskrit? Cuneiform iterations? Others?

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@Soretna That is remarkable. I had the same thought come to my mind just the other day about that word, "abyss" having that meaning in that context. I felt like the word denotes a passageway to the hollow earth, first going through the Hellish Crustal Realm, but eventually opening up on top to the hollow concave inside. I also thought that an "abyss" can be seemingly endless because of the massive nature of the caves which wind around and around the earth's shell / crustal region.

Yes, consider this, the Greek: a-byssos
a: without
byssos: floor

Sounds like a conduit or passage to me. Very simple.

But I must ask: what happens if we break byssos down further? What can we obtain?

I do not know if this reasoning has any meaning to it, but, I will continue:
byssos supposedly has a Hebrew origin:

בּוּץ - the letters: "beth / bayit", "vav", "tsadi" - pronounced: "boots"

Here is a graphic of the letters without the dageshim (plural dagesh, dot multipliers) and with the tsadi being a non-final form for recognizability:


They say this means "to bleach" or "to be white" (WHICH I DO NOT BELIEVE TO BE CORRECT: see this updated thought below about the Arctic + mist / fog: The Captive Waters - Arctic home of the Vedas - #29 by Soretna).


Now perhaps consider the "kabbalistic" definition of the letters:

בּ (beth / bayit):

  • Eve,
  • Man's first residence,
  • Womb
  • To come forth
  • This also has a "dagesh" or dot in the middle of the letter which signifies a "doubling" or multiplication / strengthening.
  • Number: 2

וּ (vav):

  • Nail
  • Divine decree or covenant
  • Also a vowel marker ("o" or "oo"); this has a middle dagesh which makes it "oo"
  • Might also be considered a "connector" between concepts/letters.
  • Number: 6

ץ (tsadi / tzadhe) - final form, non final is: צ

  • Zion or Zi
  • Repentant saints
  • Righteous Zadok (priest)
  • Virgin
  • Virtue
  • Number: 90

The numeric value should be 98.

Again, I would like to see such an analysis of the Sanskrit and/or Cuneiform if possible, as well as equivalent words used in those to check alignment + difference and so on.


One might paint a picture with the above letters together with a connection or conduit between "home" and "Zi(on)" or one of the other meanings of tzadi. Hmmmm. It is interesting how ancient languages can play out and are self defining when you know the basic pictographic roots.

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@Soretna The following note appears on the Etymonline page which you linked to:

"This is a compound of a- "without" (see a- (3)) + byssos "bottom," a word of uncertain origin possibly related to bathos "depth" [Liddell & Scott]. Watkins suggests a connection with the root of bottom (n.); Beekes suggests it is pre-Greek."

I dug into their bibliography page and found the books which they're referencing; and I also found entries relating to the root words "byssos" or "bathos."

  • This book contains a very intriguing entry on "bathos" - last entry all the way to the right. Also you'll need to zoom in to read the text. This one specifically mentions a relation to caverns and the underworld.
  • This book contains a brief entry on "byssos" at the bottom left, third entry up from the bottom.
  • This book contains an entry on "bathos" on the left page, second column to the right, first entry in the column. This author postulates that the word is also related to the "depth" of someone's grief or passion.

Screenshots for mirroring purposes (in case the original links are deleted):


All of them seem to relate to the ocean or the underworld. Lots of things to dig into and contemplate.


@Ephraimite very interesting guys. Being from Cyprus we use "byssos" to mean "behind". It is also past tense by use of the last "s".


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Yes, I think that the rivers spew out fresh water into the ocean, and that it "bottlenecks" and condenses at the orifice.

But the whirlpools still may be explained by some smaller orifices through which probably only water, fresh water, flows.



@deandddd , @Soretna , I think it's an interesting possibility - that of 2 different Polar openings...I will try to find a corresponding reference in the Vedic literature .


It's not just 2 different polar openings, but the possibility of many. The reason being is that the crust is thinner at the poles. The models that some seem to be adamant about (such as Rodney Cluff and others) of the crust being the same thickness at the equatorial region as compared to the poles is not possible. The crust MUST be thinner at the poles and @deandddd's previous presentations on the Mars visual data suggests that this holds true for planet(oid)s generally. It also explains many other things regarding animal (land based + ocean based) migration / observations as well. And so many more things, including exploratory results and anecdotal relations (stories).

You can (perhaps poorly) visualize this as leavened bread pizza (American style) that has the thicker crust on the outside from centrifugal spinning of the dough done by a bad (:smile_cat:) pizza maker. The middle of the pizza could develop very thin portions and holes in it and the outer would remain thick. When cooked it would be further pronounced with pockets and strange stretching, etc. I think you get the idea - but multiple holes and pockets form and - where thin - the holes are most easily seen and pass from the top to the pan on the bottom.

It would be good to see corroboration or suggestion thereof too from Vedic literature as well. Thanks!

@Soretna , regarding your earlier post about ABYSS - I think the Sumerian ABZU is the origin of the word ABYSS...both have a similar connotation !

I think the mysterious holes opening up all over Siberia , seem to corroborate your theory of multiple smaller Polar openings , given the thinning of Earth's crust in those regions - like veritable stretch marks on the skin :))




I think that the "aereal waters" of the Rig Veda description, that flow downwards, could be ethereal flows from celestial realms higher up towards the Pole Star, and that solidify into physical water when they reach the physical realm.

In the Vedic literatures, we read of celestial beings that appear through fire which has been made "soft" like the light of the Moon and which doesn't burn; and this is attributed to exposure to the mantras/frequencies that were vibrated through the threads that the brahmin chanters wore. The celestial being would walk out of the fire and his ethereal body would essentially solidify upon exposed to the Earthly atmosphere. But the physical bodies of the celstials and their celestial neurological systems apparently maintained their superior development from the celestial realms. And they would copulate with warrior caste women to also produce superior human warriors, but not quite the same as them. This is exactly what Plato explained; that the celesttial Poseidon came and improved the bloodlines, but after generations of dilution, common human qualities made their appearance again, and the Atlantean kings became sinful.

Anyway, the celestial/ethereal waters could solidify upon entering the Earth's atmosphere or the hollow earth environment.

If there are magnetic ropes that connect even Saturn - which is very, very far off - with The Sun, then there can be particle flows that originate from way up above us, in the direction of the Pole Star, and that reach the Earth.

And from the Rig Veda statement, it seems that the celestial, ethereal flow turns into water. Remember, from the subtle elements come the grosser, physical elements: from ether comes air then fire then water then finally earth/physical matter. The ethereal flows pass through air, so why wouldn't they take on the nature of air? When the celestial warriors that have been called upon pass through the fire and step out into the physical realm, their bodies take on physical qualities. So the celestial flows should pass to a physical airy state, then to a fiery state. We already know that higher frequency particles, such as gamma, burn when they pass through the Earth's physical realm. But then they should follow the sequence and pass into a watery state.

I think that, although all possibilities must be considered, we should try to justify the frank statements of the Vedas. It is just that, at the moment, our knowledge of particle physics suffers from severe paucity. And then nobody can imagine how a celestial river can flow through space.



The problem we have with ABZU is a lack of depth in understanding of the Cuneiform languages and correlation of these with Sanskrit - if it exists. I hypothesize that ancient Sanskrit is the Vedic tongue as we have discussed before and either the Cuneiform languages are either offshoots or from another society that is juxtaposed to the Vedic society...

@Soretna , not sure if you recollect , but we once discussed on this forum that APSU in the Vedic dialect of Sanskrit and ABZU in Sumerian have the same meaning . Also that the Sanskrit Alphabet does not have any letter with the sound "Z" (for some unknown reason) .

So , the linkage does exist and it's very significant that APSU , ABZU and ABYSS all have similar connotation .


Thanks, yes, I do recall this discussion, but I didn't take the time out to find the specific discussion that had the most relevant discussion... :tired_face:

I guess my big problem is simply that we need a new "Rosetta Stone" of sorts that gives us symbolical meaning comparatibility. I will attempt to pull together an example of this in the near term that perhaps may help guide this discussion. Direct text is not sufficient; we need a table/columnar formatted mechanism and hopefully I can figure out a way to get that started appropriately here...

Sure @Soretna , will look forward to your view on a Rosetta stone like solution to this conundrum...

@deandddd , I find your interpretation of the "aerial waters" very fascinating & indeed closer to the traditional views - who knows that is how our Universe might actually be functioning . Thanks !


Folks , this may sound gross , but I believe this crude analogy could give us clues for resolving the mystery of the whirlpool at the Abyss of the North Polar opening(s) - the point from where the rivers of Hollow Earth pump downwards (or upwards from our perspective) their fresh water into the Arctic Ocean on the outer surface of Earth .

Of course , the unique interplay of gravity must be different at the rim of the Polar opening(s) , as compared to the conventional view , for something like this to occur...we have often contemplated that on this forum :))

**Just think how water spirals down a narrow chute when you flush the toilet ? That too is a whirlpool...this may be an oversimplified comparison , but I feel it has some similarity at least , to what we're discussing here !


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The sides of the orifice may not be symetrical, either; they may not be like at the top of an apple. This could result in different flow rates and deviated currents that induce swirling.