Where Are the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel? Hollow-Earth Physics Considerations

[GeorgePlymale2]

Dear MindReach Members,

Part 8 of my series regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' (or Mormonism's) teachings regarding the location of the lost ten tribes in the hollow earth examines the various proposed physics models of a hollow earth by their respective proponents. A scientific objection to the hollow earth was raised by Orson Pratt in 1875, answering a letter from John C. Hall regarding the lost ten tribes' location. Pratt argued from Newton's shell theorem that "a globular shell can have no internal attraction in any direction," so that anything within it "never could fall to or reach the surface," a state of things "utterly incompatible with mortal existence," and Pratt's own proposal conceived of the tribes on the outer surface of the earth, yet still at the north pole.

The scientific answers which the hollow-earth theory's advocates have given such objections are examined herein, the principal ones being as follows:

The pushing-gravity tradition which runs from Nicolas Fatio de Duillier and Georges-Louis Le Sage through Lord Kelvin (via a 2002 academic anthology, "Pushing Gravity") posits that if gravity is a push from outside rather than a pull between masses, then a hollow shell partly shields whatever lies inside it, instead of leaving it weightless. Gregory Leo Harrigan's "The Great Gravity Myth" (1983) denies the universal law of gravitation outright, holding that attraction runs "to the surface only," so that the earth "could be solid, or it could be hollow."

Jan Lamprecht's "Hollow Planets" (2nd ed., 2014), an extensive scientific feasibility study and survey of cultural traditions, documents that measurements of the gravitational constant taken in deep mines and boreholes have consistently come in above the laboratory value, which he reads as a possible sign that the earth is hollow, and proposes that earthquake waves bend around a central cavity rather than pass through a dense core.

Joseph H. Cater's "The Awesome Life Force" (1984) posits that gravity is not a property of mass but a radiation produced in the outer crust and screened out at depth, so that weight fades to nothing some 700 miles beneath the surface and "the earth and other planets are hollow from logical and theoretical considerations."

These and other authors on the subject are discussed, including the Latter-day Saint author Rodney M. Cluff, the Qabalist/esotericist Frater Akiba, and Raymond Bernard, whose classic "The Hollow Earth" (1964) argues from geography rather than physics as such, moreover featuring the demonstration filmed aboard the International Space Station which has been discussed on this forum in the past, e.g.: [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] Watch "Mita's New Sun theory explains Hollow Earth and demolishes "hot fusion"" on YouTube

The next part will deal with various maps, diagrams, exposés, and novels that grew up around these cosmic questions.

Where Are the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel? Hollow-Earth Physics Considerations,...

[Pelin]

this ontopic response in the other thread can go here too ...

~ The Inner World: A New Theory, Based on Scientific and Theological Facts, Showing That the Earth Is a Hollow Sphere Containing an Internal and Inhabited Region by Frederick Culmer Sr. (Salt Lake City, 1886) - #5 by Pelin

tho it remains the question why at all to all such hype would be important, was indeed christian-zionism back then such hype, that needed also sci-fi boost!?, or maybe some expedition racketeering was in question so jewish bankers would be appeased!?

[Western0bserver]

@Pelin, the post you're responding to here covers Orson Pratt's shell theorem objection, the Le Sage pushing-gravity tradition running from Fatio de Duillier through Lord Kelvin, Lamprecht's borehole gravitational constant anomalies, Cater's gravity-as-radiation model, and Harrigan's surface-attraction thesis. That is a specific physics discussion with named authors, cited works, and testable claims.

Your entire contribution to this thread is a link to your own post in another thread and the line "maybe some expedition racketeering was in question so jewish bankers would be appeased." You didn't address a single physics argument. Not the shell theorem. Not pushing gravity. Not the borehole data. Not a single one.

I've responded to your cross-posted material at length in the Culmer thread.

The short version: your sources are forum posts you wrote yourself, a YouTube comedian with no history credentials, and a man who claims to have been a vampire. If you wanna know about vampires, go watch some of Harry Hubbard's videos and read the Encyclopaedia Judaica. Seriously good shit there. But none of that touches the physics models @GeorgePlymale2 laid out here.

If you want to engage this thread, engage the physics. Pick an argument from the post and show where it breaks.

That's what this forum is for man!

[Pelin]

physics models, that I dont even try to catch up about mainstreamers mechanistic cosmology I have completely derogatory stance, try grasp why [1] and while I do grasp the expanding earth theory as logical [2] still mormon sticking to some beneath earth roots even its plausible that cavern world exist due to logic of expanding earth theory yep gives extra space for questioning whole its posture as christian ferries heresy [2] here cant say exactly what is word actually, the claim is that mormons emerged from beneath'earth'exile later in usA, or should end up there!?, in whatever case, for me its kind of from hollow to empty creepy ancestral lineage chasing!, and why so would claim utmost ancient exceptionalism, resting on what visions, which by all logic rest on by dominionist 19 century splash [3][3] and which obviously consumed mormons too, only question is why himself JohnS didnt boosted extra that hollow earth narrative, or how actually he embraced dominionism himself, hm, I havent explored this second notion at all [4][5] altho there are many that will directly tie its emergence to freemasonry instead coz own dispensationalist hype ex-freemason reshifted an masonic temple and organizational structure in Christian Ethos, what could be as well logical, simply freemasonic sect where Christianity is main pivot instead the regular universalism, i.e. Jesus Christ superstar meme in specific circumstances [6][6][6] "Smith was claimed to have stated that Mormonism had "true Masonry"; other leaders like Brigham Young said Masonic rituals were an "apostate endowment" corrupted from the rites given in Solomon's Temple that Smith had restored to its original form." [6] so to all the earlier solomons spin projections, later to pop up additional hollow earth spins as back up, tell me isnt that personality cult hype in this case, actually many examples around the world [7] that once JosephS got removed made martyr from him and that motivation for cult survival, not that I imply he would become mass murderer anyhow, but the point is the power of hijack that can fool people even on mass suicide, altho to me, looks like freemasonic infiltration with other aims, maybe experiment went wrong and drift away, or everything was intentionally rolled like that [7]

[Pelin]

• must apologize I wasnt aware that the mormon lost tribes hype, was actually spin [1][1] point shared already in other thread [2-2] deciphering useful visions I'll say in time of mediums spiritism and seers, that was standard practice for mormons as always since the lds council'of'12 were "with the calling to be seers" just as JosephS himself was visionary too [3][3][3] what guess in those times was very regular knowhow [4-16]

eh, I was assuming there is some interesting story, but not that the main story is from some hieroglyphic translation of the kindhook plates, from which actually came the supposed story about the lost tribes ... hm, didnt know that the obsession of smiths with gold plates is coz they were consumed by the gold rush too, so built narrative that would be appealing story for [itching ride or recruiting diggers!?, evident by the two most hyped ideas of mormonism, whether for kindhook'plates or mormon'book'plates [5][5][5] isnt obvious the repeating forgery pattern, actually someones visions used as new christian personal cult, to which hooked others, regular trap in all ages, eg. here in balkans such spin were bogomils which as paulicians tried to spin own Christianity [6][6-9][6] there was secret book tho, but the same couldnt survive the atmospheric hardships!

• practically I've never dive in lds stories, and had have just recent hints about mormons through JayD videos, eventually something to have learnt on the go earlier but forgot about, like the second 3rd footnote from the first paragraph above and solely coz tied to theosophy, but I've never had have explored the teachings, also think last year found that video of the supposed ex-mormon WilliamS debunking it as skim, probably correct reasoning coz say he went behind the scenes!?, tho if as always protestantism was issue for me, what about mormonism as whatever freemasonic kick, whether eg. as intentional infiltration for peddling Chirstians, or eg. sudden burst of JosephS to leave the local masonic'temple'lodge, So, just seen surficially lds is problematic, what about when listen to JayD explanations!, dont take me wrong, but when overall will be seen all that hype, I have indeed issue how lds elites were peddling its followers to become True Christians that need to share mandatory donations [7] similar approach can be seen in various other "christian" denominations [7] but none of them was trying to bring new prophet, what about inner earth connection to ancient israel tribes!, when is too much is too much!

[Western0bserver]

@Pelin, I've answered the substance of these two posts at length in the Culmer thread - the Kinderhook plates conflation, the Joseph Smith Sr./Jr. confusion, the Schnoebelen vampire problem, the "clicking vortex" sourcing method, all of it. I won't repeat it all here, so folks can read it there if they want the full accounting.

What I will address here is what's specific to this thread.

You just said - in a physics thread, in response to a post about the shell theorem, Le Sage pushing gravity, Lamprecht's borehole data, and Cater's radiation model:

"physics models, that I dont even try to catch up :D"

Then you wrote over 500 words anyway.

That's the whole problem in one sentence, @Pelin. You've told us you won't engage the physics, you've told us you've never studied LDS teachings, and your source authorities are a YouTube comedian and a self-described vampire.

And yet you keep posting walls of text across every thread @GeorgePlymale2 opens, none of which touch a single claim in a single post of his.

At what point does this stop being disagreement and start being disruption? @admins please think about this situation... Something smells really bad in Denmark.

Because from where I'm sitting, a man who openly admits he can't engage the subject matter but keeps carpet-bombing the threads with unrelated material is not participating in a conversation. He's preventing one from happening.

The expanding earth mention is the closest you've come to anything physics-adjacent in this entire exchange, and you didn't develop it - you just name-dropped it and moved on to Freemasonry. @sidharthabahadur has been interested in that topic and referred us to it off and on. If you actually want to argue that an expanding earth model contradicts or subsumes the hollow earth models laid out in this post, that would be a real contribution.

Do the work. Show how expanding earth mechanics interact with Pratt's shell theorem objection. Explain what happens to Lamprecht's borehole anomalies under that framework.

That's the thread you're in. That's the conversation that's on the table.

Everything else you've posted here belongs in a theology forum, not a physics thread.

[Pelin]

eh, so much words in one post trying to project mine ignorance, while You've become more than obviously the ignorant, hm, did You grasp my point about physics in the 4th post, try again, what would be doable if take Your time to check in its 1st footnote context, try again [1][1] that all those go under mechanistic cosmology hype of newton which tilting in cartesian grip and atomism brought wrong mainstream physics, as then so as later to it balooned QM and GR!, probably now I am more clear altho if You continue throwing such logic then we have basic paradigm physics mismatch point of view, i.e. I see expanding earth theory through Aether Field Logic not mechanistic cosmology [2][3] so completely different physics ... so do take Your time

• also when I say I am not authority on lds theology, that means except bringing JayD or WilliamS like suggestions, I cant make other claim about!, thus people need to take that second arguments with caution, altho I do encourage exploration, even tho I am more than certain now even that is true!!!, btw saying comedian cant be certain factor, that at best is shallow after the ukrainian war!, tho speaks for Your ignorance yet again

now, think when I brought the plates arguments in the 5th post above, think whatever further exploration of mine on this topic is complete waste of time!, physics, even by mechanistic cosmology will be utmost futile so would explain existence of lost tribes beneath earth, i.e. by whichever physics You'll go its obvious that the story is that story, so the lost tribes are just tilting on some bookshelves and nowhere else ... or!?

[Western0bserver]

@Pelin, now this is getting interesting because you just played yourself and I don't think you realize it.

You're telling me the physics in this post fails because it rests on "mechanistic cosmology" - Newtonian frameworks that you reject in favor of "Aether Field Logic."

Do you know what Le Sage pushing gravity is? It's an aether-based model. The pushing-gravity tradition that @GeorgePlymale2 documented - Fatio de Duillier, Le Sage, Lord Kelvin - posits a medium filling space whose pressure differentials produce gravitational effects. That is aether physics. Cater's gravity-as-radiation model posits gravity as something produced and screened by matter rather than a property of mass - that's also an aether-compatible framework. Lamprecht's borehole anomalies are empirical measurements that don't care what your theoretical framework is - the data says what the data says regardless of whether you interpret it through Newton or through aether field dynamics.

You just rejected the physics in this thread on aether grounds when several of the models presented ARE aether-based.

You would know that if you had read the post. You didn't, so you assumed it was all mainstream Newtonian mechanics and dismissed it. This is what happens when you argue against things you haven't read.

On the Zelensky comparison - yes, I know where you're going with "comedian cant be certain factor after the ukrainian war." Zelensky being a comedian who became a wartime president doesn't retroactively make every comedian an authority on whatever they talk about. But Zelensky, you know, is a puppet for the actual Deep State. Zelensky is shit and his own people don't like him. I've spoken with enough Ukrainians to know they hate that comedian dick-tater.

Jay Dyer's comedy career doesn't give him standing as an LDS historian any more than Zelensky's comedy career made him a military strategist. The comparison proves nothing except that you needed something clever and reached for the nearest thing on the shelf.

And now you're saying "whatever further exploration of mine on this topic is complete waste of time" and "the lost tribes are just tilting on some bookshelves and nowhere else."

So after multiple posts across three threads, your concluding position is that you're done exploring because you've decided it's settled - based on the Kinderhook plates, which as I explained in the Culmer thread have nothing to do with the hollow earth lost tribes teaching documented in this series.

You're declaring the investigation closed based on evidence that doesn't apply to the question.

Your forum search links to your own posts on GizaDeathStar are not sources. They're searches of your own prior writing. We've been through this.

The offer still stands. Pick one physics model from @GeorgePlymale2's post. Engage it on aether terms if you want - that would actually be a productive conversation since several of these models live in that space. But "I reject mechanistic cosmology therefore none of this matters" doesn't work when the models aren't mechanistic.

Read the post, @Pelin.

[Pelin]

bending arguments will not make point, I am not linking myself, again, I give directions to links in those posts on GDS ...

about the physics exactly I assume, its era of mechanistic cosmology, so I havent bother with it!, yet You dont read me again, the mechanistic cosmology brought problem especially as locked in cartesian grid system!, so eg. ...

1. Fatio de Duillier created a mechanical corpuscular theory of gravity in 1690 that used atomistic principles to explain Isaac Newton's law of universal gravitation [1][1]

2. Le Sage too went in the same boat [2][2]

3. Kelvin embraced aether but sadly through cartesian mechanistic cosmology [3][3]

so now, canDance who played himself, maybe mormons coz You rush jump and roll to conclusion again for me, as I've pointed coz the shallow logic about the basic tribal vision hype, which is derived as is derived, among other by some enthusiast sailor to the north pole, for me its enough argument not to bother about, now this too, what else ... I am exhausted by this empty yet rude dribble of Yours, so cantDance anymore on this topic ...

• ... I've pointed simply, such sinking ship of genealogy [4] is wrong by all means to be used like some useful background for the rest of theological arguments, which yeah that comedian JayD is dismantling it by magnitude!, tho if its comfort, he is ironing all the protestant and catholic fallacies, earlier even didnt considered mormonism for crucial apologetic juggling, guess due to the comparably smaller believers, tho as I can see in the past few years he did start ironing mormon calls!

Please Feel Free to ignore me on this topic, it would be less annoying for reading coz obviously as mormon You are ultra biased, and whatever I'll bring as claim, You will try to unlist it, as I can see in the other thread even with ridiculous meme, why such urge to negate something even in vain, do try examine neatly mine propositions if care what I claim!