Maybe to add a little dimension to the questions, why is there a true north
and a magnetic north, and why are they different? Why does the magnetic
north pole change its location on a rather consistant basis? And where did
Dean go? Did he take us up on the excursion to the interior idea? And then,
when all these things are considered, what explains why they are the way ther
are.
Norlan
Norlan,
There magnetic lines of force seem to line the inner rim of the
doughnut-shaped opening, just that at one point, the magnetic force becomes
more intense and, from far away, attracts as if it were " the " magnetic
point. Right now it is at Queen Elizabeth Island.
But what confuses me a bit is whether the Geo North Pole is over the orifice
or along the neck of the it. Needless to say, we couldn't depend on a
compass to indicate this because the magnetic lines of force are running in
or out of the inside of the orifice.
And as far as celestial navigation is concerned, you couldn't trust the
starsz over your head because you would be at an inward angle, so the
Northern point would seem to be over your head, but it would just be your
angle distorting things. I guess we can't know exactly where the geo North
pole is.
idea?
No, I hit the museums today, but got back much earlier than I thought.
Later,
Dharma/Dean
And then,
The Russians say the magnetic north pole runs along the Lomonosov Ridge in a
1500 mile arc around the geographic pole. They call it a Ridge because that
is where the ocean appears to be rather shallow compared to the surrounding
waters -- which would make sence if this is in fact the inside edge of the
rim. Centrifugal force would cause the water to thin on the inside edge of
the opening. But my question remains: Why does the magnetic pole shift at
all?
Norlan
Norlan,
Could the changing field have to do with our moon and/or the planets of our
solar system? Are reliable records of when the fields change?
My personal experience with the HET. Ten-years ago was the first time someone
mentioned the HET to me; then 5-years later, then about three-years ago. With
the advent of the Internet I think news is/will spread very fast. I have
learned more about it through the net. The net gives me more freedom to speak
on this topic, because you have an easily accessible source to refer people
to, that way I don't have to spend so much time and take the risk of selling
the theory; let them do the research and decide for themselves.
I've had one experience at my workplace of telling others about the theory
with enthusiasm, and someone used it against me. So I am more selective in
whom and how I approach the subject from now on.
MM
Norlan,
Nice points.
The magnetic lines of force are a flow, and it is the nature of flows to
change, like the course of a river does now and then. I imagine it is a
minor point, although I would like to know, too.
Dharma/Dean
Sports Fans,
Here is some interesting stuff from The Hollow Earth by Raymond Bernard.
One thing I'll say- the fact that hyenas are found in the polar area encased
in ice has much significance. It means that even if we got past the NATO
boys and polar bears on this side of the opening, we would have to deal with
tropical wild animals on the other side. I don't know which is worse. How
many bullets can you carry with you?
Dean/Dharma wrote:
Here it is:
ORIGIN OF THE MAMMOTH
Gardner claims that the mammouth and elephant-like creatures of tropical
origin found frozen in the Arctic ice, which is derived from fresh water,
are really animals from the interior of the Earth that came to the surface
and became frozen, and are not prehistoric animals as commonly supposed.
Gardner's theory of the subterranian origin of the mammoth found
confirmation in Admiral Byrd's observation of a living mammouth during his
1,700 mile flight into the land beyond the North Pole, within the polar
opening.
Gardner claims that these strange animals not known on the Earth's surface
were carried by rivers from the Earth's interior, freezing within the ice
which was then formed. This theory seems very reasonable, in view of the ice
being formed from fresh water not found in the Arctic Ocean. Since this ice,
like icebergs, could not have been formed by ocean water, the only
explanation is that it comes from other water- fresh water rivers flowing
out through the polar opening from the Earth's interior.
Since these animals are found inside of icebergs, which are composed of
fresh water, this water, like the animals frozen in the ice it forms on
reaching the surface and exposed to its lower temperature, must come from
the Earth's interior. Gardner speaks of herds of mammoths, elephants and
other tropical animals which, when they venture out to the colder regions
near the rim of the polar opening, together with glaciers which form there
from water in the interior- flowing outward and freezing- become frozen in
the ice. Or they might fall into crevasses, perhaps concealed by snow, and
the moment they fall in, they will be covered by snow and snow water from
the ice from above and hermetically sealed in the ice. This would account
for the fresh condition in which these mammouths frozen in the ice are found
after these glaciers have worked their way over the rim 0f the polar opening
and out to the Siberian wastes where these frozen animals are found in
perfectly fresh and edible condition.
Robert B. Cook tells of the remains not only of mammoths , but of hairy
rhinoceros, reindeer, hippopotamus, lion and hyena, found in Northen
glacial deposits. He claims that these animals which were unable to endure
cold weather were either summer visitors during the severity of the glacial
period or permanent residents when the country had a warmer climate. But
Garner maintains that these animals came from inside the Earth for the
following reason: " Since the reindeer, lion, and hyena are present day
forms of life and not as old as the mammoth ( at least in the form in which
we know them today and in which these remains show them to have been when
they were alive ), it is evident that these animals visited the spots where
their remains were found not from southerly climates during early glacial
epochs, but that they are visitors from the land of the interior. Otherwise,
these present-day forms would not be found alongside those of the mammoth
which we have shown to be a present day inhabitant of the interior of the
Earth. Not knowing this, Mr. Cook has great difficulty in explaining the
occurrence together of these forms which, in his view, are earlier and later
forms of life. But when we shall see that they are really contemporaneous
( and both came from the interior of the earth ), the difficulty vanishes."
In the stomach of the mammoth was found undigested food consisting of young
shoots of pine and fir and young fir cones. In others are found fern and
tropical vegetation. How could na Arctic animal have tropical food in its
stomach. One explanation is that the Arctic region once had a tropical
climate, and that a shift of the Earth on its axis suddenly brought on the
Ice Age and changed the climate to a frigid one.
This theory has been offered to explain both the tropical vegetation in the
stomach of the frozen Arctic animals and the fact that many of these huge
animals were of tropical species, related to elephants. Great deposits of
elephant tusks were found in Siberia as evidence of the then northern
habitat of the tropical animals. But there is another theory to explain
these facts: that these tropical animals came from the interior of the
Earth, which has a tropical climate, coming out through the North polar
opening. On reaching the north exterior with its Arctic climate they froze,
since they were unaccustomed such a cold climate. This is the theory held by
Ray Palmer, who does not accept the idea that these animals died in
prehistoric times as a result of a shifting of the Earth on its axis. He
says:
" True the death must have been sudden, but it was not because the Arctic
was previously tropical and suddenly changed to a frigid climate. The sudden
coming of the Ice Age was not the cause of death. The cause of death was
Arctic in nature, and could have have occurred any time, even recently.
Since the Ice Age there have bem no mammoths in the known world, unless they
exist in the mysterious land beyond the Pole, where one of them was actually
seen alive by members of the Byrd expedition!
We have taken the mammoth as a rather sensational modern evidence of Byrd's
mysterious land, but there are many lesser proofs that na unknown
originating point exists somewhere in the Northern regions.
One reknowned Guru that I know of lived most of his life in the forests of
India. There he lived in such a state of peace and true unity with all life,
that it was known that ferocious tigers would come and curl up at his feet.
If we gain a true state of enlightenment before attempting our passage, we will
carry with us harmony with all life, and there will not be a need for weapons on
this level.
Nimueh
pole is.
Dean,
Have you thought about how GPS will behave when you get close to the opening?
Frode
Frode,
Well, I imagine that it would give the correct longitude, as that would not
be affected by curvature. I imagine.
But latitude would be affected as sonn as the slope began. A certain
curvature would be programed into the calculations.
Dean
Norlan
I don't get this. The ridge you talk about is not circular but strait on my map. And the present magnetic pole is not situated on the ridge at all. Does the Russians have any supporting data for this claim?
Frode
Frode,
It is true that any line along the interior ridge of the polar opening would
appear as a straight line on a conventional map. Conventional maps don't
allow for a polar opening. The ridge is therefore misplaced on conventional
maps, as are all reference points in the polar regions misplaced because of
the polar opening factor. The ridge is perceived as a straight line to those
unaware of the polar opening, whereas, it is actually a concave circular line
around the interior rim of the polar opening. When this supposed location of
the ridge on conventional maps is curled around the rim of the polar opening,
then the 1500 mile arc along the rim has a striking resemblance to the arc of
the path of the magnetic north pole. The Russian Scientists have mapped the
Lomonosov Ridge, the Russian Hollow Earth theorists have made the connection
to the magnetic declanation path. It's just all part of the process of
solving the big riddle.
Norlan
Very interesting. However, this explanation indicates a degree of random
application as to where the magnetic pole may reside, depending upon the
particular ebb and flow of this process. Whereas, the magnetic pole shift
has a much more consistant, and even predictable course. We know where the
declination point is going to be in 50 years, which is a result of tracking
its consistant progress along its pathway for a good many decades. I'm not
sure this consistancy and predictability would be possible with Cater's
explanation. It provides an explanation for the transcient nature of the
magnetic poles, but not for the consistancy factor. There seems to be more
to it than that.
Norlan
Is there any correlation to the rate of rotation of the Earth? Is that
possible to know?
Frode, does Cater's newer book say anything further about this?
I'm not
Yeah, there doesn seem to be more to it. I can't speculate any further at
this moment.
Dharma/Dean
Thanks!
It certainly is not easy to see through all the wrong information sometimes. I thought that the map was quit close to the real world, just that it missed the hole and maybe some islands. Do you know of Amundsen's expedition where he went from Svalbard to the north-pole and then to Alaska. Shouldn't he be quite close to the opening? Were there any anomalies mentioned in regard to that trip?
Frode
the
tracking
Not much really. He has added only one line where he says "If the Earth did not have these large openings, the magnetic and geographic pole would coincide"
That's all.
Frode
Frode,
Amudsen wondered off course, into Russia, about 100 miles. This suggests
that he dipped into the bowl-like side of the entrance, then back up.
He noted warmer temperatures near the pole.
The one who knows about Amudsen is Rod of www.ourhollowearth.com
I'll try to double check with him.
Dharma/Dean
Frode,
Here is some stuff from Rod's article The Size and Location of the Polar
Openings: http://www.ourhollowearth.com/PolarOpn.htm
" The Amundsen dirigible transpolar flight of 1926 from Spitzbergen to the
Pole and from the Pole to about 100 miles west of Point Barrow, Alaska would
indicate the north polar opening would need to be located to one side of
their line of flight.
...
This estimated location would place the opening on the Russian side of
Amundsen's line of flight from the Pole to Alaska, and yet also be in the
line of sight of the direction that Admiral Peary sighted the mirage of
Crocker land from the west coast of Ellesmere Island in Northern Canada.
Indicative that the curve into the opening has already begun near the pole
is Amundsen's navigator error upon reaching Alaska. They had assumed a
straight line of flight from Spitzbergen to the Pole and from the Pole to
Point Barrow, Alaska, but upon arriving in Alaska were surprised that they
were around a 100 miles too far west of Point Barrow, closer towards the
Bering Sea that they didn't even see Point Barrow. This may indicate that
near the pole they had actually dipped somewhat down into the polar opening
causing their straight line of flight to be skewed."
Dean,
Just a comment on tempertures in the polar regions,do any infered
photos exist any where?
if they do warmer air must show polar entrances clearly.
On a different note ,for three or four months I have read an alot of
different
material on hollowearth and commend all sites on the net involved and if
a
summary of all material was put in front of investigative journalist
that
make documentaries for tv (this is one hell of a story)
Our awareness is aroused by Jules Verne remakes and at the moment in
New Zealand Peter Jackson is directing a triogy of Tolkins Lord of the
Rings.
To raise awareness to level where people will actively persue full
discovery of inner earth( earths last great challange )this needs to
get on TV.I can see someone like Virgin Records Richard Branston
heading an exploration ,an interestig thought.any one got contacts in
the television community???
best regards
David
Here is something from Sadek Adams' book on polar warming. There is some
info here which we haven't posted.
You'll all remember that yesterday, I sent around the Health Research
e-address and mentioned that Sadek's book was on the page.
I had a bit of a problem with Word 97 because it doesn't like different
fonts on the same page, so scroll on down until you get to the bottom of
page 14.
And at the bottom of the first page, page 11, there is a drawing which
didn't make it, but I cluded it as an attachment. I hope you all get to read
this!
Dharma/Dean wrote:
Here it is, starting on page 11:
The evidence for Arctic warmth is astounding. It has nothing to do with the
Gulf Stream or six months of non-stop sunshine. It is generally accepted by
researchers, but probably not very well known, that north of the Arctic
Circle it can be and is WARMER, not colder, than south of the Arctic Circle.
Encyclopedias generally agree on this point, although there are a few
contra-indications as seen in the previous section.
The tundra regions of Siberia, a narrow band bordering the Arctic Ocean from
Finland to the Bering Strait, and well above the Arctic Circle, is WARMER in
winter than the frozen forest of coniferous trees (taiga) to the south well
below the Arctic Circle. Here in the sub-arctic taiga south of the tree line
we find one of the coldest places on earth, the Omyakom-Yakutsk area,
at -68°C at a latitude of only 63°N. Latitude of course is not everything.
This area sits in a river valley which traps cold air, but the fact that
it's much warmer further north lends credence to our assertion of Arctic
warmth. A similar situation exists in Northern Canada. See Arctic map above
No one questions the above "contradiction". However, it is precisely the
fact of a polar opening through which warm air "spills over" that causes
warmth at higher latitudes. This has been shown beautifully by the great
nineteenth century polar explorers (see below). See also CONCLUSION re
warmth at higher altitude (temperature inversion)
Using the orthodox latitude designations, there are indications of the
limits of Arctic pack ice and drift ice (see map). Solid ice is shown as
starting between 700N and 80 N and proceeding right up to 90°N, as indicated
earlier.
The alternative viewpoint agrees with ice formation in the lower seventies ,
but explorers show that above 80° N ice breaks down almost completely, the
sea is mainly liquid water, the land (not much of it left), is the habitat
of many plants and animals, and the climate is comparitively temperate.
These facts are ABSOLUTELY INDISPUTABLE. Obviously this area is further
north of point C (see diagram ), where the latitude meter reads 90°N. There
is also an almost impenetrable "wall of China" ice barrier surrounding the
polar opening. This would appear to be immediately north of point C.
No one goes further "north" of point C
F because they think they are already "on
top of the world and what's the point
!? there's nowhere else to go!"
c D !?! there's nowhere else to go!
.o
Some very sophisticated instrumentation is
`o
,< needed to go beyond point C, across
0
inhospitable terrain into the temperate land beyond -- you would now be
going "south" into the hollow interior of the earth.
North Polar opening
11
The following is a brief survey of explorers reports of conditions in
northern higher
latitudes, and is taken from Gardner (book 1)-- A JOURNEY TO THE EARTH'S
INTERIOR.
Reed (book 2) also has a similar report, somewhat briefer. Here in GARDNER
and REED
we have a unique record of Arctic anomalies reported firsthand by the
explorers
themselves. The books in Gardner's bibliography referred to are listed at
the end of
HOLLOW EARTH BOOKS chapter THREE
Barrington and Beufoy book 1 a
1751 Captain Mac-Callam, commanding a whaling vessel reached a latitude of
83° N and found clear water in front of him. Ice was last seen at 80°
Dutch warship latitude 880 weather warm, sea free of ice
17th century two Dutch whalers reached 89° , found no ice, but an open sea
1675 PHILOSOPHICAL TRANSACTIONS - open polar sea under the pole
1754 Mr Stephen§Dutch ship at 84' N, cold not excessive, little ice, clear
weather with a north wind, thick weather with a southerly wind, ice composed
of fresh water
Dr. Elisha Kent Kane book 1 b, 1 c
Dr Kent sailed as surgeon and scientific observer in search of Sir John
Franklin (see North West Passage in conclusion )
1853 80°N indications of north water all year round
1853 damp gale from north, no ice at Kennedy Channel 80%
1853 after travelling due north over solid ice, Morton (Kane's collea gue),
was startled by the growing weakness of the ice, its surface becoming rotten
and the snow wet and pulpy. His dogs were seized with terror, refused to
advance, sledges rendered useless. Water observed further north. From Cape
Andrew Jackson could be seen a sea over 4000 square miles in area
1854 Sir John Franklin Island - not a speck of ice to be seen from a height
of 480
feet across a 40 mile horizon
1596 Barentz - water has been seen east of the northernmost cape of Novaya
Zemlya (76°). Dr. Scoresby - open water in neighbourhood of pole. Baron
Wrangel - saw vast ocean when 40 miles from the coast of Arctic Asia.
Captain Penny - sea in Wellington Sound
Dr. I I Hayes .book 1 d
One of Kane's companions, Dr Hayes sailed in the schooner UNITED STATES
30 July passed Arctic Circle, among icebergs, air was warm almost as a
summer's night at home
12
i
78°N Cape Alexander November 2 gale from north east, temperature mild, never
below zero. When the gale had driven the ice away, there was no more ice
from the north to take its place
November 13 further north temperatures rise again
November 14 unseasonable warmth, north east wind blowing 24 hours. At 2200
temp.
6
four and a half degrees. Hayes baffled makes mischief with my theories
end November Arctic night set in, further north temperatures strangely mild,
open water, falls of snow (above line where snow usually falls), followed by
rain
January 13 Port Foulke more snow, air not cold, open sea nearby?
82° N Hayes at shores of polar basin, broad ocean lay at my feet
Both Wrangle (Baron Vrangelya a Russian explorer) and Parry confirm open
water to the north all year round. Humans of an unknown race may dwell
beyond the open polar sea
Adolphus W. Greely
book 1e
Greely says in his book that the wonders of the Arctic regions are so great
that he understated them rather than lay himself open to the suspicion of
exaggerating
Lieutenant Lockwood one of Greely's assistants, explored the coast of
Greenland: tidal and ice effects convinced him open water spaces exist in
the polar ocean, its main ice moves all winter and forms barrier to further
sledge travel northwards
82° N Lake Hazen/Ruggles River: profuse perspiration saturated our clothing
trying to catch a hare. Air balmy, sky blue, cumulus clouds
81° Grinnell Land summer temperature 74° F marching uncomfortable, no snow
on hills 2000 feet high
Montreal 1884 British Association for the Advancement of Science. Greely
remarked that the further north he went the greater was the depth to which
the ground thawed. Also, when the tide was flowing from the north the water
was warmer than when flowing from the south.
More about Greely's discoveries appear in Hecrnan. Dick book if
Adolf Erik Nordenskiold 1g
Finnish professor with 21 years Arctic experience.
Greenland Eskimo women go nearly naked in their inner tents
Nordenskiold says why did no one pass over the Greenland ice into the
ice-free zone northward
North and northwest wind brings heat and rain. Open water to the north?
13
Dr. Fridtjof Nansen books 1h, 1i, 1j, 1k
In 1888 Nansen startled the scientific world by announcing his determination
to cross the ice-dome of Greenland.
Nansen found that while the lower part of Greenland was ice covered, there
was every evidence of fertility and warmth further north and also a more
open sea. The party carried boats overland and used them in the open sea
along the coast of Greenland.
This requires a special comment. As you have seen, all the above explorers
found warmer conditions further north (Kane's dogs and sledges were rendered
useless when the ice started to melt). Thus the genius of NANSEN inproviding
boats for just such an "emergency" is brilliant foresight. See also
Diminishing Radius of Curvature part (ii) how Nansen was lost in the Arctic
Northern Greenland some nights too warm to sleep
Eskimos say a fertile land exists to the north
early 1894 at 79° -80° N among ice packs - north wind raises temperature,
south wind lowers it
Spring 80° N water at great depth warmer, contrary to a lower latitude where
water is colder deeper down
88°N temperatures rising, far more comfortable than further south
April 16 about mid 80s latitude sun scorched quite unpleasantly
May hardly sleep for heat
So there you have it! A few of the great Arctic explorers all saying the
same thing! Warm air from the interior could not cause the whole of the
polar basin to be ice-free. Obviously. But the two opposing forces of warm
air and an ice barrier would of course raise temperatures and give rise to
suspended particles of water vapour in the atmosphere. If the earth were
solid, the whole segment of latitudes 80° to 9o N would be solid ice. A
barren landscape, ice desert, with no possibility for the formation of
:. y .: ..::::_: :::.:: ~ ::.:.:: 'v'~
~
. `.`:::.: :~ : ::::::::.:: :: Gardner does not say much about this. Reed
(book 2) denotes a small chapter to it. He quotes Peary (q.v.) saying of Mc
Cormick Bay sun shining, blue sky, cumulus clouds and a dazzling white mist
over Inglefield Gulf Also quoted, the Antarctic explorer Bernacchi - mist or
vapour in a state of congelation, whole ship covered, on deck too thick to
see anything
Note also the Biblical reference from JOB 26 (see SCRIPTURES)
Enclosing the face of the throne Spreading out over it his cloud
wrapping up the waters in his clouds So that the cloud mass is not split
under.them _
It is this thick cloud layer which is mistaken for polar ice caps when
viewed from above
14
Yahoo Groups removed 1 attachment from this message: Sadek P 11.BMP (image/bmp)
David,
This is an old, old post which I kept from Jan's list on an infrared plar
imaging site.
Try it, but don't expect much. They censor all these things. We have an old
post in the archives about censoring of Arctic photos and such, I'll try to
find it and point it out, but maybe tomorrow.
Dean
Here is the old post:
I found this website, maintained by the Uni of Iowa, which
seems to archive infrared
images of the polar regions.
http://eiger.physics.uiowa.edu/~vis/images/
I haven't had much time to check through it
all, but it seems to contain some great
images.
Maybe someone can have a closer look and find
some anomalous images among the lot.
We could even attempt to get in touch with
these guys and ask for better images or
close-ups or any type of interesting info.
Any volunteers?
cheers all
HJS