The extinction of the woolly mammoth: was it a quick freeze?

Folks , there happens to be a layer of "muck" , hundreds of feet thick beneath the Arctic Tundra . This has been found in Siberia as well as Alaska .

This "muck" is composed the skeletons of mega fauna that became extinct during the last ice age . Some studies have shown that all these big animals instantly froze to death due to some sudden event 13,500 years ago .

Specific to the woolly mammoth though , it likely still lives on in the Hollow Earth

Could it be the same asteroid that tilted Earth's Geographic Pole by 15 degrees ?

The extinction of the woolly mammoth: was it a quick freeze?

by Michael Oard

Summary

Apart from formerly glaciated areas, woolly mammoth remains are abundant in the surficial sediments of the mid and high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere, including western Europe, northern and eastern Asia, Alaska and the Yukon. There are probably millions of mammoths buried in the permafrost of Siberia alone. The mammoths are found with a wide variety of other mammals, large and small, many of which were grazers. They lived in a grassland environment with a long growing season, mild winters, very little permafrost, and a wide diversity of plants—quite different from the climate in the region today.

The mammoths and other animals colonised the region after the Flood during the ice age. The region’s climate during the ice age was ideal for rapid population growth and, in the 600 or so years before their demise, the population had grown to many millions of animals. They were buried in the dust storms that deposited the loess blankets found in those regions today. Some were entombed in a standing position. The good state of preservation of the stomach contents does not call for super-rapid freezing of the carcasses. Rather than food digestion, the mammoth stomach acts as a food storage pouch. The mammoths became extinct when, at the end of the ice age, the climate in the region became more continental, with colder winters, warmer summers, and drier conditions.

Frozen carcasses and many thousands of tons of bones and tusks of woolly mammoths are buried in Siberia and Alaska. In March 2000, the Discovery Channel produced a special on the excavation of a carcass in north central Siberia, called the Jarkov mammoth. This mammoth was cut out of the permafrost and transported by helicopter into cold storage for future analysis and possible cloning.1

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Mammoth remains have puzzled scientists and laymen for hundreds of years. Many explanations have been offered. One of the most popular hypotheses is that one eventful day, the hairy elephants were peacefully grazing on grass and buttercups when suddenly, tragedy struck, and millions of them froze instantly.

This article examines the life and death of the woolly mammoth in Siberia, Alaska, and the Yukon Territory of Canada. These areas, together with the surrounding shallow ocean (Bering Strait), are called Beringia. There are still unknowns associated with the woolly mammoth and its environment in Beringia. Some information is conflicting. However, the data is pointing to a unique environment and extinction of the woolly mammoths in Beringia.

What is a woolly mammoth?

A woolly mammoth (Mammuthus primigenius) is one of several types of mammoths in the genus Mammuthus within the order Proboscidea. The woolly mammoth is essentially a hairy elephant with a large shoulder hump, a sloping back, small ears, tiny tail, unique teeth, a small trunk with a distinctive tip and two finger-like projections, huge spirally curved tusks up to 3.5 meters long, and spiral locks of dark hair covering a silky underfur.2

Mammoths are classified mainly on variables such as molar hypsodonty (height of the crown), number of lamellae (ridges on crown), and enamel thickness. History shows there has been much taxonomic splitting of mammoths, as well as other members of Proboscidea. It is likely that they are all descended from a single created kind.2

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In general, there seem to be two main varieties of mammoths on both Eurasia and North America. The woolly mammoth is the smaller variety that generally inhabited the north. The second, more southern variety, from both Eurasia and North America can be lumped together for simplification and referred to as the Columbian mammoth (Mammuthus columbi).

Figure 2. Distribution of woolly mammoth remains, and the mammoth steppe. Glaciated areas are shown speckled. Mammoth steppe is shown hatched. The area referred to as Beringia is shown separately (after Guthrie143

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). Note that the extent of the northern and eastern boundaries of the Scandinavian ice sheet is controversial.
Mammoth distribution

Mammoths are commonly found in surficial sediments from western Europe eastward through northern and eastern Asia, Alaska and the Yukon (Figure 2).3,4

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Mammoth remains are also found on some of the islands in the Bering Sea5,6 and are dredged from the shallow continental shelves surrounding Beringia.7,8 Enormous numbers of ice age mammals, most commonly mammoths, are dredged up from the unconsolidated sediments of the North Sea by trawlers.9 Woolly mammoths are found in abundance south of the North American ice sheet. They are rare in formerly glaciated areas. Mammoth and mastodon teeth have been dredged from 40 sites along the continental shelf off the eastern US in water up to 120 m deep.10

In Siberia, the woolly mammoth inhabited the whole area from the Ural Mountains to the Pacific Ocean. Their east-west distribution is generally uniform, except that they are especially abundant in northeast Siberia.11 Their numbers increase farther north.12,13 Mammoth remains are amazingly abundant on the Lyakhov Islands14 and the other islands of the New Siberian Islands, 230 km north of the Arctic coast.12,15

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Frozen mammoth carcasses are usually found eroding out of river banks and along the shore of the Arctic Ocean.

Mammoth fauna

Woolly mammoths are not the only fossil mammals found in the permafrost of Beringia. There are a wide range of other mammals, large and small, that accompany the mammoths. These include the woolly rhinoceros, wolf, fox, lion, brown bear, camel, deer, ground sloth, pika, wolverine, ferret, ground squirrel, moose, reindeer, yak, musk ox, giant beaver, lemming, porcupine, coyote, skunk, mastodon, antelope, sheep, voles, hare and rabbit, plus many species of birds, rodents, horses, and bisons.4,16–19 Frozen carcasses of these animals, especially the woolly rhinoceros, are also found. Generally, the same animals are found together throughout much of the mid and high latitudes of the Northern Hemi­sphere.3,20

How many mammoths are buried in Siberia?

There has been much controversy over how many woolly mammoths are frozen in the permafrost of Siberia. A few scientists attempt to downplay the number,21 but practically all observers describe the number in superlatives.

The top expert on woolly mammoths in Siberia, Nikolai Vereshchagin, has spent nearly a half century of research on the mammoth fauna. He states that there are many hundreds of thousands of large mammals buried in Siberia22 and also many millions of bones.23 One estimate he made for one region of Siberia would suggest five million mammoths buried.24 Is he exaggerating? It would be conservative, therefore, to conclude that several million mammoths are buried in Beringia.

Perplexing mammoth data

There are many perplexing aspects to the Siberian mammoth finds, including the existence of frozen carcasses and the good preservation of their stomach contents. In addition, a number of the carcasses and skeletons have been unearthed in a general standing position, as if the animal sank in a bog.25–27 The Selerikhan horse was entombed in a general standing position.28 The new Jarkov mammoth was dug up in a standing position.

It is also relevant that an analysis of several features of the carcasses shows that three woolly mammoths and two woolly rhinoceroses suffocated, including the Beresovka (or Beryosovka) mammoth.29–32 The Beresovka mammoth also had a broken pelvis, ribs, and right foreleg.13,27

For carcasses to be frozen and the bones and tusks well preserved, quick burial is necessary. But how could all these woolly mammoths have been forced into the rock hard permafrost, which starts about half a meter deep, below the summer melt zone?

Beringian paleoenvironmental deductions

The animals themselves tell us much about the paleoenvironment —a controversial subject.33 The diversity of animals was so great that there must have been a highly diverse vegetation.34 The only similar diversity of mammals is on the Serengeti of East Africa.34,35 Practically all the large mammals were grazers that ate a wide variety of herbaceous vegetation, mainly grasses. Based on the large numbers of healthy individuals, Beringia, as well as Europe and western Russia, must have been mostly one huge grassland during the ice age, called the mammoth steppe or steppe tundra (Figure 2).3,34,36,37
Figure 3. Ability of animals to walk through deep snow or to stay on top of crusted snow depends on foot loading and chest height (after Guthrie).144 The sheep and wolf could not have tolerated deep snow or boggy substrate.
To maintain a large variety of herbaceous vegetation on the mammoth steppe would have required a long growing season with warm soil and rapid spring growth.38 This contrasts strongly to the current environment where green vegetation does not appear in northern Siberia until mid June to early July.39 Ninety percent of the biomass of grass is in the roots below the surface, and the grass cannot grow until the snow melts and the soil warms up. Therefore, winters must have been milder with light snowfall. The growth pattern of the mammals reinforces the deduction of a longer growing season.34 The shaggy ruffs, heavy horns, long tusks, and enormous antlers are what wildlife managers would recognise as indicators of high-quality habitat with light competition and a long growing season.40 Open range with light snowfall during winter is also supported by the existence of several animals that are intolerant of deep snow, such as the saiga antelope, bighorn sheep, Dall sheep, and wolf (Figure 3).41

With milder winters and a longer growing season over an extensive grassland, it is likely that there were no significant areas of permafrost. This is because permafrost would have caused a boggy substrate in summer, making it difficult for much grass to grow. Further paleoecological evidence for a lack of permafrost comes from the existence of some animals with small hooves, such as the saiga antelope. This animal cannot manage on boggy substrate. Furthermore, there is plenty of other evidence that the climate of Siberia was once much warmer, but again this evidence is somewhat obscured by uniformitarian dating and pigeonholing the evidence into supposed ‘interglacial’ and ‘interstadial’ periods.42

Mammoth uniformitarian problems

How millions of mammoths became entombed in Siberian permafrost really taxes the uniformitarian principle. Why would multitudes of mammoths, plus the many other animals, even want to live in Siberia with its fierce winters and summer bogs? What would these large beasts eat? Siberia today supports only a very few large animals, and these are especially adapted to boggy vegetation and often migrate to escape the full force of winter. Most perplexing of all, how did the woolly mammoths die in Siberia? Was it a quick freeze? Was man the hunter responsible for the demise of the mammoths?

Today, Siberia is well known for its bitterly cold winters. The lowest temperature in the Northern Hemisphere is -68°C at Verkhoyansk.43 Large mammals can usually tolerate a fair amount of cold. But could the mammoths, horses, bison, and other animals tolerate 6 to 9 months of bitter cold with even colder wind-chill temperatures in blizzards? Vereshchagin and Baryshnikov44 state: ‘There would be no place for mammoths in the present arctic tundra of Eurasia with its dense snow driven by the winds.’

Could the animals have lived in Siberia today during the relatively warm summer, perhaps migrating there from the south? The temperature likely would have been pleasant for them, but the environment deadly. Siberia today is in the permafrost zone where up to a metre of the surface melts in the summer. Water pools on the surface forming massive bogs and muskegs, making summer travel difficult, if not impossible, for man and beast.44,45 Tolmachoff46 states that a few inches of this sticky mud makes the substrate practically impassable for a man, and that a foot or more would probably trap a mammoth.

Siberia may be lush with vegetation in the summer, but it is the wrong type. Although there are patches of grass, bog and muskeg vegetation predominates, and these are low in nutrition for grazers.47 The taiga forest vegetation south of the current tundra is also poorly digestible for grazers.48 Comparing living elephants to mammoths, the daily requirement for a woolly mammoth would have been about 200 to 300 kg of succulent vegetation49 and 130–190 litres of water! Vereshchagin50 flatly declares: ‘Neither mammoth nor bison could exist in the sort of tundra that exists there [in Siberia] today.’

The problem is even more paradoxical in a uniformitarian ice age climate. Ice age climate simulations are of variable quality, depending upon the initial conditions, the approximations employed for complex variables, the particular physics, the number of variables, whether the simulation is a general circulation model, etc. Nevertheless, the better general circulation models demonstrate that the glacial climate of Siberia (assuming uniformitarianism) would have been colder (about 10–20°C) than today: ‘During glacial and stadial stages, the climate of Siberia was much colder than at present.’ 51 This deepens the mystery of why the lowlands of Siberia and Alaska were never glaciated!

Except possibly on Wrangel Island in the Arctic Ocean,52–54 the woolly mammoth died out in Siberia at the end of the ice age. Furthermore, the woolly mammoth and many of the other large mammals, including 33 genera from North America, disappeared on whole continents or went extinct. There are two main hypotheses to account for all this extinction at the end of the ice age: either they were killed by man in a great blitzkrieg slaughter, or they died because of climate change.55 Uniformitarian scientists do not know the answer to this, but it has been extraordinarily controversial for more than 200 years. At a recent mammoth conference, Alroy expressed his frustration:

‘After many decades of debate, the North American end-Pleistocene megafaunal mass extinction remains a lightning rod of controversy. The extraordinarily divergent opinions expressed in this volume show that no resolution is in sight.’ 56

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Non-creationist hypotheses

Such confounding enigmas, not only about the mammoth and the mammoth steppe fauna, but also about the ice age itself, have naturally produced many hypotheses. Early scientists produced a lot of confused writing. For example, Sir Henry Howorth,7,12 who gathered copious observations from Siberian explorers that are considered fairly accurate, believed the mammoths met their demise in a continental-scale flood, but that this flood was not Noah’s Flood.

Immanuel Velikovsky wrote two influential popular books on astral and earth catastrophes, called Worlds in Collision57 and Earth in Upheaval.58 In these books the demise of the woolly mammoths in Siberia played a lead role. He weaved the mysteries of the mammoth, the ice age, and many other puzzles from the earth sciences into a catastrophic adventure featuring Venus and Mars, occurring about 3,500 years ago. Velikovsky is sharp at pointing out the many earth science puzzles of the past, which a large number of scientists seem to either ignore or minimise. However, he cannot help but add an element of hyperbole, such as the following in referring to the ‘muck’ of Alaska:

‘Under what conditions did this great slaughter take place, in which millions upon millions of animals were torn limb from limb and mingled with uprooted trees?’ 59

His mechanism for explaining the extinction of the woolly mammoth, supposedly living in a warm climate and then suddenly being quick frozen, is a catastrophic poleshift to a more vertical Earth axis (to warm the region up) and then back again to near the present23½ degrees (to cool it down). The idea of a quick freeze is based mainly on the presence of food in the mammoths’ mouths and not enough time for their last meals to decay in their stomachs. Other popular writers have accepted and embellished Velikovsky’s ideas.60–62

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Charles Ginenthal63 provides an updated, more elaborate defense of Velikovsky’s pole shift hypothesis. There is one major problem, among many, with Ginenthal’s and Velikovsky’s hypothesis, and that is a pole shift to a more vertical axis will cool the region, not warm it up.

Creationist hypotheses

The information on the woolly mammoths in Siberia is confusing, and most of it is published in Russian. All this data, and the many hypotheses, were bound to influence creationists, who also have been attempting to interpret the evidence in a catastrophic framework related to the Flood. Harold Clark64 recognised that the extinction of the mammoths in Siberia was a major puzzle that needed a creationist explanation: ‘One of the most perplexing phenomena of geology is that of the so-called “frozen mammoths” of Siberia.’

Many creationists have leaned towards a Flood demise.65–68

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Joseph Dillow,69 who wrote an in-depth book on the vapour canopy, focussed considerable attention on how the woolly mammoth became extinct.70 He proposed that the hairy beasts were quick-frozen just before the Flood. Walter Brown32 included a chapter in his hydroplate model on what happened to the woolly mammoths. He proposed that the woolly mammoths died during the Flood by a quick freeze. Dillow and Brown made several mistaken deductions on the data related to the woolly mammoth and its environment in Beringia, such as that there is over 1,200 m of ‘muck’ containing animal and vegetative remains.71,72

Clark,64 Harold Coffin,73 and myself 74 believe that the woolly mammoth lived and died during the ice age after the Flood.

Did Siberian mammoths die in the Flood?

There is abundant evidence that the woolly mammoths in Siberia, Alaska and the Yukon died after the Flood. They were truly denizens of the post-Flood ice age.

The woolly mammoth is part of an ice age mammoth steppe community that ranged across the non-glaciated portions of the Northern Hemisphere (Figure 2).3 Strong arguments favour a post-Flood origin for the mammoth steppe animals outside of Beringia. The animals are found in: 1) glacial till near the edge of the ice sheets, 2) river flood plain debris, 3) river terraces, 4) tarpits, 5) caves or rockshelters, 6) loess, 7) sinkholes, and 8) peat bogs. There are an estimated 51 predominantly male mammoths that are found in a sink hole at Hot Springs, South Dakota.75 In northwest Siberia, mammoths are found in sediments above glacial till.76 Spear points are associated with or embedded in the remains of mammoths at a dozen or more localities in North America.77 Woolly mammoths are commonly depicted in cave art from Europe eastward to the Russian plain and Ural Mountains.78,79 Ivory carvings are rather common in early-man sites in southern Siberia.80

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More than 70 mammoth bone huts have been discovered on the Central Russian Plain.81,82 Such surficial features and deposits would be virtually impossible to form during the Flood and must be post-Flood. To isolate the woolly mammoths in Beringia for a special catastrophic extinction during the Flood, while ignoring the fate of the remainder of the post-Flood mammoth steppe fauna does not make sense.

Another strong argument against the mammoth death-in-the-Flood hypothesis is that the Beringian animals are buried in unconsolidated surficial sediments overlying lithified sedimentary rocks. If the animals were killed by an ice or hail dump from space during the early Flood, as envisioned by Dillow and Brown, the animals should be found in the lower portion of the sedimentary strata, a little above crystalline rocks. This surficial sediment with indications of post-Flood processes lies upon hundreds of meters of consolidated sedimentary rock that a large majority of creationists would attribute to the Flood. For instance, the Selerikhan horse carcass was found in frozen loam between peat layers and above a gold placer that lay over Mesozoic rocks.83 The baby mammoth, Dima, was found within slope wash on the 10 m terrace of the Kirgilyakh River. The terrace was carved out of Jurassic shales and sandstones.84,85 Below the surficial sediments that contain the mammoths, most of Siberia is composed of sedimentary rocks from all ages of the geological column.86 The bedrock below the Cape Deceit fauna of Kotzebue Sound, Alaska, consists of Paleozoic meta­limestone, Paleozoic schists, and Pliocene basalts.87

The post-Flood rapid ice age

Mammoth remains in the northern hemisphere are associated with events during the ice age. However, uniformitarian ice age models cannot explain the mammoths, or even the ice age itself. The August 18–25, 1997, issue of US News & World Report had a long series of articles on eighteen great mysteries of science. One of those mysteries is: ‘What causes ice ages?’ 88

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The June 1996 issue of the popular earth science magazine Earth, reported on a new theory of the ice age. Daniel Pendick89 starts his article titled ‘The dust ages’ by saying: ‘If they hadn’t actually happened, the ice ages would sound like science fiction’. However, the unique creationist post-Flood ice age offers a reasonable solution for the mammoth mysteries.

Figure 4. Effect of volcanic dust on cooling of continental interiors. Straight lines are solar radiation, partly reflected back to space by dust and aerosols. Wavy lines are infrared radiation. The result is the inverse of the greenhouse effect.
The ice age was caused by the climatic aftermath of the Genesis Flood.55 As a result of this great tectonic and volcanic upheaval, the stratosphere would have held great quantities of dust and aerosols immediately after the Flood. Copious post-Flood volcanism would have reinforced the polluted stratosphere. Thus sunlight would have been partially reflected back to space from the volcanic products trapped in the stratosphere (Figure 4). Less sunlight would have meant cooler land surfaces, as was observed at various locations after the great volcanic eruption in ad 535.90 During the Flood, warm water from the ‘fountains of the great deep’ would have produced a warm post-Flood ocean. Evaporation would be much greater at mid and high latitude than today due to the much warmer water. Copious evaporation close to the ice sheets would have been most favourable for their rapid growth. After many centuries, once the oceans cooled, the ice sheets would have melted rapidly. Many other aspects of the ice age have been estimated, including the average thickness of the ice sheets, the length of the ice age, the number of ice ages, etc.55

Mammoth population explosion

Was there enough time for the mammoth population to increase to millions by the end of the post-Flood ice age? We can estimate the mammoth growth after the Flood by examining the reproductive habits of African elephants, a good analogue.91

The elephant reproductive rate can vary significantly.92 Elephants do not reach sexual maturity until age 10 to 23.93 They live 50 to 60 years. Eltringham94 states that generally, elephants produce a calf at intervals of four to five years with twins 1.35 % of the time. However, some have suggested that elephants can give birth every two to three years, and there is a case of a zoo elephant giving birth two years and five months after its first birth.95 The reproductive rate is especially enhanced in a favourable environment as when the population is low or the animals are being hunted regularly.92,96–99 There are no natural enemies for a mature elephant, except man,100 but calves are subject to predation.So, mammoths have the potential to increase rapidly following the Flood.

Based on doubling rates of 10 years101 and 25 years91 observed in Africa, there would be (assuming ideal circumstances with no predation or calf mortality) 2.1 million mammoths in 300 years or 8 million mammoths in 550 years,102 respectively. In other words, there should be no problem for the population of woolly mammoths to reach many millions toward the end of the ice age some 600 years after the Flood.

The post-Flood rapid ice age would have had milder winters and cooler summers with little if any permafrost, mainly because the Arctic and North Pacific Oceans were warm, and ice-free.55 It would not have been the formidable landscape observed today or deduced from uniformitarian ice age expectations. Since the lowlands of Beringia were not glaciated, another uniformitarian conundrum, Beringia would have been a favourable environment for many mammals.

Extinction of the mammoths at end of ice age

Of all the questions related to the mammoths, their extinction has been the most perplexing. It was not only mammoths that became extinct at the end of the ice age, but also many other large animals. Why? We will first discuss their extinction in Siberia and then the extinction of the mammoths and other ice age mammals on whole continents or worldwide.

Were woolly mammoths quick-frozen in Siberia?

The existence of carcasses with identifiable stomach remains and well-preserved bones and tusks has suggested a ‘quick-freeze’ to many. This has been reinforced by the research of the Birds Eye Frozen Foods Company, which calculated a sudden fall to below -100°C based on heat conduction.103

Creationist quick-freeze advocates32,69

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postulate that the quick-freeze was directly related to the Flood. However, as previously discussed in the section ‘Did Siberian mammoths die in the Flood?’ the evidence is strong that the Siberian mammoths are buried in post-Flood sediments associated with the ice age. All the arguments presented in that section, such as the mammoths of Beringia being part of one Northern Hemisphere ice age fauna, would apply against the quick-freeze hypothesis.

Figure 5. Headless horse in mine shaft indicates that some time elapsed between when the animal was trapped and final burial. Guthrie’s cartoon145 speculates how the horse was trapped in a bog with its head and neck exposed, which was subsequently eaten by a carnivore. The sixth picture illustrates how the legs of the horse protruded into the mine shaft. One of its hind legs was used to attach cables and hang lanterns. The horse could have just as easily been mired in wind-blown dust as in a bog. Indeed, the horse was found in loam, sandy loam and sand with a steppe-like sporo-pollen complex,146 typical of wind-blown deposits and vegetation.
There are other arguments against the quick-freeze hypothesis.

  1. The number of frozen carcasses, in spite of under-reporting, is very small compared to the number of mammoth bones that underwent normal decay and are entombed in the permafrost.104,105

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  1. The carcasses are often partially decayed with fly pupae and display signs of scavenging,3,79,106,107

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not expected during a quick-freeze.

  1. The unique condition of several of the carcasses, such as the famished condition of Dima and the headless Selerikhan horse (Figure 5),3,83 indicate some time elapsed before final burial.

  2. For some of the carcasses, death appears to have occurred at different times of the year.83,108 A quick-freeze during the Flood, especially as advocated by some creationists, would have occurred in a single instant.

  3. The characteristics of the permafrost that entombs the carcasses and bones, show that it was not dumped quickly from above. It is doubtful that ice wedges would form during a quick drop of ice or hail from above.

How are the stomach contents explained?

The fact that the stomach contents were only partially decayed can be explained satisfactorily by understanding the digestive physiology of the elephant, which was little known until the 1970s.109 From studying 50 freshly killed elephants, it was discovered that the main digestive process of elephants does not occur in the stomach, but after the food passes the stomach, especially in the caecum and colon.109,110 Digestion is achieved mainly by bacteria and protozoa. Yet the researchers found no protozoa, no fermentation and very little hydrolysis of cellulose taking place in the stomachs, although the stomach had a very acidic pH of about 2. This high acidity is expected to partially degrade the stomach vegetation. It is clear, therefore, that the stomach is mainly a storage area before digestion.111,112

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Further evidence that the stomach contents should not necessarily decay completely upon death is provided by the preserved stomach contents of mastodons found in North America. Preserved vegetation from the gastrointestinal tracts of mastodons, which are generally found in former peat bogs, have occasionally been reported from the northeast United States.113–115 Recently, the skeleton of a mastodon was discovered within peat on top of an ice age end-moraine in Ohio.115 The remains yielded a discrete, cylindrical mass of plant material found in association with the articulated vertebrae and ribs.

Thus a quick chill is not needed to explain the partially preserved stomach contents of the mammoth carcasses.

The big chill and desiccation at the end of the ice age

Near the end of the ice age, as the ocean surface temperature cooled at mid and high latitude, and evaporation slowed, the equable ice age climate would have changed to a drier, more continental climate with more seasonal extremes.116

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Permafrost would begin developing in Beringia, and the substrate would become boggier in summer. As the climate became more continental during deglaciation, many animals in Siberia would tend to migrate closer to the Arctic Ocean, where the waters were still unfrozen and the climate would have been less continental. However, the changing climate finally caught up with them and they ended up buried in the permafrost that has continued to this day.

Extinction of woolly mammoths in Siberia

With this climatic change, there are a number of ways the mammoths and other animals could have died and become interred into the permafrost. One is by becoming trapped in bogs.73 I once thought the cold and wind, itself, could have simply killed them off,117 but it is probable that the mammoths could have endured much cold. I am sure some of the animals were trapped by the flooded rivers draining ice sheets and were buried in fluvial or lacustrine deposits.83,118 Upon further investigation, I now believe the vast majority of the mammoths and other mammals died and were interred into the permafrost by none of the above mechanisms. I believe the secret to their demise and burial can be found in the type of sediment surrounding the woolly mammoths.

According to those who have studied these deposits, the vast majority of the animals are found in the ‘yedomas’ of Siberia22 and the ‘muck’ of Alaska. The yedomas, a Yukut term, are hills 10–20 m, sometimes up to 60 m, high, containing a large percentage of ground ice.119,120 The hills formed after a period of post-ice-age surficial permafrost melting. Muck is the name given by gold miners to the organic-rich material deposited above gold-bearing gravels in Alaska and the Yukon Territory.121 Vereshchagin122 states that the yedomas contain a great abundance of mammal bones:

‘The great abundance of bones of large herbivores in the Yedoma is convincing evidence of the rich pasturage offered by this region during the Pleistocene ….’

What type of sediment makes up the yedomas and muck? There has been much controversy and a number of hypotheses on the origin of this sediment. There is now general agreement that the yedomas and muck are loess—a wind-blown silt!121,123–127 Much data support the wind-blown origin of this sediment. The loess is also rich in ground ice and ice wedges. The ground ice formed by a segregation process in which layers and lenses of ice, sometimes clear and sometimes inter-mixed with sediment, developed within the silt.128–130 The loess is not thousands of feet deep in Siberia and Alaska, as some have thought, but is a relatively thin veneer that is widespread in Beringia.123,125,131,132 Some of the loess, especially in Alaska, has been reworked by downslope mass flow. Redeposition of the loess has broken and twisted the vegetation and disarticulated mammal bones, and this has inspired Velikovsky and others to suggest exotic catastrophes.

In the post-Flood ice age model, strong wind would have characterised the big chill and dessication during deglaciation.133 In a dry environment, this wind would have picked up and transported large quantities of silt and sand. Abundant wind-blown material is observed as relic features of the ice age in the Northern Hemisphere. Copious wind-blown dust even occurs in the ice age portion of the Greenland and Antarctica ice cores. It is known that mammoths and other mammals are entombed in loess in other areas.122,134–136 Thus, it seems likely that the mammoths in Beringia were mostly killed and buried by dust storms.

Dust storms of variable intensity likely blew from time to time for a few hundred years near the end of the ice age. The animals could have died from the direct effect of the dust or some other cause. Regardless, the dust would have buried their remains fairly quickly. The characteristics of the small number of carcasses that must have been buried very rapidly can likely be explained by gigantic dust storms. From the Dust Bowl era in the midwest of the United States, it is known that a dust storm can produce dust drifts several meters high, burying tractors and partially covering buildings. It is possible that dust storms at the end of the ice age would be so intense that they could cover and suffocate a woolly mammoth trying to survive the storm. It may even be possible to suffocate a mammoth by the strong wind and blowing dust. The animal would have been buried quickly, since the animal would act like a snow fence. It is not inconceivable that a few of these animals would have been left in a standing position, braced by the dust around them. The permafrost would then move upward after the loess was deposited and rapidly freeze the remains, thus accounting for the rapid burial, which seems impossible any other way. The broken bones of the Beresovka mammoth could easily be explained by the shifting of ground ice and frozen sediment137— in other words a diagenetic, post-mortem effect of shifting permafrost.138,139 Although some researchers lean toward such a diagenetic explanation, there was considerable blood near the wound of the foreleg of the Beresovka mammoth. Bleeding had occurred between the muscles and the fatty and connective tissues.140

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The extinction of the woolly mammoth: was it a quick freeze? - creation.com

Creation or evolution? It makes a big difference! Over 10,000 trustworthy articles. Evidence for biblical creation.
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Mammoth fauna extinction elsewhere

The mammoths and many of the other animals went extinct either over the whole world or on continents they once inhabited. This occurred at the end of the ice age and probably into early post-glacial time. The mystery has a reasonable solution within the post-Flood ice age model.141

The animals thrived during the ice age because the temperatures were more equable with cool summers and milder winters. (Note that much of the continental land mass was never covered by ice sheets, even during the ice age.) The disharmonious associations of plants and animals all over the Northern Hemisphere during the ice age are evidence of this equable climate. But, this equable climate ended during deglaciation, and the climate became more continental with colder winters and warmer summers. The existence of ice sheets, the development of sea ice and eventually a cooler ocean than today, would have resulted in less evaporation and a drier climate. The cold winters and dry climate would stress the animals all across the Northern Hemisphere. The larger mammals would have been especially susceptible to drought. Thus climate change likely was the main cause of the end-of-the-ice‑age extinctions. The reason the large animals did not die out at the end of previous glaciations is because there were no previous glaciations.142 Man likely aided the extinction process by harvesting weakened animals.

Conclusion

Carcasses and bones of woolly mammoths in Siberia, Alaska, and the Yukon have been difficult to explain. The mammoth remains are abundant over the mid and high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere, except in formerly glaciated areas. There are probably millions of them buried in the permafrost of Siberia alone. A wide variety of other mammals, large and small, accompanied the mammoth. Many of these animals are grazers, implying that the paleoenvironment of Beringia was a grassland with a wide diversity of plants. This diversity of plants and animals points to a longer growing season with milder winters and very little permafrost.

This paleoenvironment is contrary to what is observed in Beringia today, with its very cold winters and boggy substrate in summer. Scientists constrained by uniformitarian thinking seem to face conundrum after conundrum in regard to the life and death of the woolly mammoth in Beringia, as well as by the ice age itself. A uniformitarian ice age climate would have been even colder still. It is difficult to conceive that the woolly mammoth and all the other animals could have lived in Siberia under these conditions. It is obvious the uniformitarian assumption does not apply. Thus, many hypotheses, both creationist and non-creationist, have been proposed. Creationists have been divided on whether the woolly mammoth perished in the Flood or afterwards. A number of creationist hypotheses involve a quick freeze, because it was thought that the state of preservation of the carcasses with only half-decayed vegetation in their stomachs demanded it.

Reasonable explanations for all these mysteries are available within the context of a unique post-Flood ice age. Astral catastrophies, pole shifts and other such exotic hypotheses are not needed. A quick freeze is also not necessary, and besides, there is much data against the hypothesis. There is strong evidence that the woolly mammoth died after the Flood during the ice age. There was enough time for the population of the mammoths to have grown to millions by the end of the ice age. Furthermore, this unique ice age was characterised by colder summers and warmer winters, resulting in a more favourable habitat for the animals in the non-glaciated lowlands of Beringia. The animals became extinct at the end of the ice age because the climate changed to a more continental climate, with colder winters and warmer summers, and drier conditions. There is copious data against the hypothesis of a quick freeze. The state of preservation of the stomach contents are better explained by the post-gastric digestive system of elephants in which the stomach is mainly a holding pouch for vegetation.

The question of how the mammoths died in Beringia can be answered by analysing the sediments surrounding the mammoths and other animals. They are mostly entombed in yedomas in Siberia and muck in Alaska. These are mostly loess and reworked loess. It is postulated that the animals were buried by dust storms, whether they met their demise directly by wind-blown silt or not. The carcasses and other perplexing data associated with the carcasses, such as death by suffocation, entombment while in a standing position, and broken bones, can be explained by death during gigantic dust storms and post-mortem shifting of the permafrost.

Acknowledgments

I thank Mark Russell, Kirk Toth, Dave Jolly, and Glen Wolfrom for providing hard-to-obtain literature and for providing data on the woolly mammoths. I also thank Tas Walker and others at CMI–Australia, for their valuable suggestions and Harold Coffin for reviewing the manuscript and suggesting a number of changes.
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Disharmonious associations - creation.com

Ice age fossils found in strange climes point to a single post-Flood Ice Age.
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  • Woolly mammoths were cold adapted
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Sidhartha,

The quick freeze could be because the mammoth fell into a pool of cold water that froze over, and then eventually broke off and floated out; within an iceberg, for example.

Except for Scandanavia, the Arctic shores are flat and sandy. It seems that the shores of the inner earth would have to be high and rocky and possess the fjords of Norway in order to produce this effect.

Dean

Dean , that's one possibility...the other one could have been a sudden pole shift due to the asteroid strike, which plunged many animals into frigid weather without any warning . Some of the creatures seem to have been frozen right in the midst of chewing their food...something catastrophic must have happened to have instantly "flash frozen" millions of large animals , now buried under the Arctic Tundra .

Regards On Monday, September 16, 2019, 7:46:10 PM GMT+5:30, [email protected] [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] <[email protected]> wrote:

Sidhartha,

The quick freeze could be because the mammoth fell into a pool of cold water that froze over, and then eventually broke off and floated out; within an iceberg, for example.
Except for Scandanavia, the Arctic shores are flat and sandy. It seems that the shores of the inner earth would have to be high and rocky and possess the fjords of Norway in order to produce this effect.
Dean #yiv3461482671 #yiv3461482671 -- #yiv3461482671ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv3461482671 #yiv3461482671ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv3461482671 #yiv3461482671ygrp-mkp #yiv3461482671hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv3461482671 #yiv3461482671ygrp-mkp #yiv3461482671ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv3461482671 #yiv3461482671ygrp-mkp .yiv3461482671ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv3461482671 #yiv3461482671ygrp-mkp .yiv3461482671ad p {margin:0;}#yiv3461482671 #yiv3461482671ygrp-mkp .yiv3461482671ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3461482671 #yiv3461482671ygrp-sponsor #yiv3461482671ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv3461482671 #yiv3461482671ygrp-sponsor #yiv3461482671ygrp-lc #yiv3461482671hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv3461482671 #yiv3461482671ygrp-sponsor #yiv3461482671ygrp-lc .yiv3461482671ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 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Sidhartha,

So many "flash" frozen? It might have happened at the beginning of the Kali Yuga. The Popul Vu speaks of the planets going into an elastic orbit, with Venus approaching closely, then bounding away.

Dean

Yes Dean , it means those animals were subjected to an extreme drop in temperature , so sudden that many were frozen in their tracks , right where they stood , with food half-chewed in their mouths , or food partially digested in their gut .

An asteroid that knocked the Earth such that the geographic poles swung by 15 degrees could have caused such an effect .

**Millions of large bodied animals (mega fauna) were thus instantly annihilated by some catastrophe and their bones piled up to a depth of several hundred feet , buried under the Arctic Tundra (in the perma frost region today) .
Regards

Regards On Monday, September 16, 2019, 7:46:10 PM GMT+5:30, [email protected] [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] <[email protected]> wrote:

Sidhartha,

The quick freeze could be because the mammoth fell into a pool of cold water that froze over, and then eventually broke off and floated out; within an iceberg, for example.
Except for Scandanavia, the Arctic shores are flat and sandy. It seems that the shores of the inner earth would have to be high and rocky and possess the fjords of Norway in order to produce this effect.
Dean #yiv3274910204 #yiv3274910204 -- #yiv3274910204ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv3274910204 #yiv3274910204ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv3274910204 #yiv3274910204ygrp-mkp #yiv3274910204hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv3274910204 #yiv3274910204ygrp-mkp #yiv3274910204ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv3274910204 #yiv3274910204ygrp-mkp .yiv3274910204ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv3274910204 #yiv3274910204ygrp-mkp .yiv3274910204ad p {margin:0;}#yiv3274910204 #yiv3274910204ygrp-mkp .yiv3274910204ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3274910204 #yiv3274910204ygrp-sponsor #yiv3274910204ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv3274910204 #yiv3274910204ygrp-sponsor #yiv3274910204ygrp-lc #yiv3274910204hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv3274910204 #yiv3274910204ygrp-sponsor #yiv3274910204ygrp-lc .yiv3274910204ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 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Dean, regarding inner shores, "The Smoky God" relates
https://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/smog/smog04.htm:

Soretna , this particular extract from the Smoky God (where it mentions that the Hollow Earth people spoke a language much like Sanskrit) almost seems like a description of the society as described in Rig Veda :

The people are exceedingly musical, and learned to a remarkable degree in their arts and sciences, especially geometry and astronomy. Their cities are equipped with vast palaces of music, where not infrequently as many as twenty-five thousand lusty voices of this giant race swell forth in mighty choruses of the most sublime symphonies.

The children are not supposed to attend institutions of learning before they are twenty years old. Then their school life begins and continues for thirty years, ten of which are

p. 131

uniformly devoted by both sexes to the study of music.
**It is noteworthy that roughly one-third of all Vedic literature is devoted to classical Vedic music and singing . Out of the 4 Vedas i.e. Rig , Yajur , Sam and Atharva , the Sam Veda (Rig Veda in a musical form) is almost exclusively devoted to music and singing .

Regards

illumination00 wrote:

Dean, regarding inner shores, "The Smoky God" relates:

One day soon after this, I felt exceedingly drowsy, and fell into a sound sleep. But it seemed that I was almost immediately aroused by my father's vigorous shaking of me by the shoulder and saying: "Olaf, awaken; there is land in sight!"
I sprang to my feet, and oh! joy unspeakable! There, far in the distance, yet directly in our path, were lands jutting boldly into the sea. The shore-line stretched far away to the right of us, as far as the eye could see, and all along the sandy beach were waves breaking into choppy foam, receding, then going forward again, ever chanting in monotonous thunder tones the song of the deep. The banks were covered with trees and vegetation.
I cannot express my feeling of exultation at this discovery. My father stood motionless, with his hand on the tiller, looking straight ahead, pouring out his heart in thankful prayer and thanksgiving to the gods Odin and Thor.

Remarkable. I truly wish there were a worthy English translation of the Rig
Veda and other literature. I seem to be hitting dead ends when I try to
find Vedic literature that's "correctly" translated and isn't somehow
watered down or missing things.

illumination00 wrote:

Dean, regarding inner shores, "The Smoky God" relates
https://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/smog/smog04.htm:

One day soon after this, I felt exceedingly drowsy, and fell into a sound
sleep. But it seemed that I was almost immediately aroused by my father's
vigorous shaking of me by the shoulder and saying: "Olaf, awaken; there is
land in sight!"
I sprang to my feet, and oh! joy unspeakable! There, far in the distance,
yet directly in our path, were lands jutting boldly into the sea. The
shore-line stretched far away to the right of us, as far as the eye could
see, and all along the sandy beach were waves breaking into choppy foam,
receding, then going forward again, ever chanting in monotonous thunder
tones the song of the deep. The banks were covered with trees and
vegetation.
I cannot express my feeling of exultation at this discovery. My father
stood motionless, with his hand on the tiller, looking straight ahead,
pouring out his heart in thankful prayer and thanksgiving to the gods Odin
and Thor.

Soretna , look at the irony of this situation...we are trying to find translations of the most scientific and phonetically correct language EVER used by mankind , now "virtually dead" , as in it is no longer the spoken language of the masses anywhere in the world , not even in India .

However , flash back just a few thousand years and Sanskrit was THE language to know .

The Vedic knowledge , believed by the sages to be divine and eternal , was "revealed" , NOT composed by anyone and is of extreme antiquity . It was written down only about 5,000 years ago , post the conclusion of Mahabharata epic and at the start of this current age of Kalyug . The ancient Vedic sages who compiled (not composed) the Rig Vedic hymns , themselves state they are relating facts from "very olden times" , which means even they were NOT witness to many of the facts they were relating !

**It is strange that for thousands of years , the Vedic literature was memorised by Vedic priests , then transmitted orally , generation to generation , in the Gurukul system of education . Such a feat required the ability to memorise entire books by heart , without forgetting a single Shloka (verse) . Also , the pronounciation of each syllable in the mantra had to be absolutely perfect , else their efficacy was believed to have been lost .

The weirdest part was that the development of writing was seen as a sign of decline in human intellect and culture , rather than as a sign of progress . I guess , we folks in the 21st century , just can't relate to that type of thinking :))

Regards

The people are exceedingly musical, and learned to a remarkable degree in their arts and sciences, especially geometry and astronomy. Their cities are equipped with vast palaces of music, where not infrequently as many as twenty-five thousand lusty voices of this giant race swell forth in mighty choruses of the most sublime symphonies.

The children are not supposed to attend institutions of learning before they are twenty years old. Then their school life begins and continues for thirty years, ten of which are

p. 131

uniformly devoted by both sexes to the study of music.
**It is noteworthy that roughly one-third of all Vedic literature is devoted to classical Vedic music and singing . Out of the 4 Vedas i.e. Rig , Yajur , Sam and Atharva , the Sam Veda (Rig Veda in a musical form) is almost exclusively devoted to music and singing .

Regards

This is true and it's a problem, but it is where we're at and we have to
figure out how to work with it. I would love to learn Sanskrit and all of
the root variants / potentiate symbols, but HOW? This is worse than
learning even Hebrew because it appears that there are not authoritative
sources for learning it properly and with proper Vedic context. Where to
begin? How to begin? I've tried multiple times to find learning resources,
but I've never been convinced of any source being of sufficient depth or
breadth of conveyance of proper instruction and understanding... So is
there an English version and are there any Sanskrit Vedic-centric learning
resources that we can confide in as truly authoritative today?

illumination00 wrote:

Dean, regarding inner shores, "The Smoky God" relates
https://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/smog/smog04.htm:

One day soon after this, I felt exceedingly drowsy, and fell into a sound
sleep. But it seemed that I was almost immediately aroused by my father's
vigorous shaking of me by the shoulder and saying: "Olaf, awaken; there is
land in sight!"
I sprang to my feet, and oh! joy unspeakable! There, far in the distance,
yet directly in our path, were lands jutting boldly into the sea. The
shore-line stretched far away to the right of us, as far as the eye could
see, and all along the sandy beach were waves breaking into choppy foam,
receding, then going forward again, ever chanting in monotonous thunder
tones the song of the deep. The banks were covered with trees and
vegetation.
I cannot express my feeling of exultation at this discovery. My father
stood motionless, with his hand on the tiller, looking straight ahead,
pouring out his heart in thankful prayer and thanksgiving to the gods Odin
and Thor.

Soretna , let me further define the problem at hand :))
In Sanskrit some of the words can have upto 8 meanings - for example "go" can mean cow , it can mean a ray of light , it can mean a stream of water , etc. etc.

Then again , the same Shloka (verse) can have multiple interpretations . The Vedic seers and sages deliberately obscured the meanings so that it could not be understood without proper instruction by a Guru .

The reason for those sages to have such an attitude may sound peculiar , but here is one good example :-

**The very famous and well known Gayatri Mantra , used so commonly by Hindus for everyday meditation , can also be used (surprise , surprise) to invoke a very powerful Astra (Vedic weapon) . However , the technique used to invoke such a lethal weapon , by merely using such a common everyday mantra , is totally secret & probably nobody alive today (at least on the Earth's outer surface) knows how to do so - thank God for small mercies :))
Ok , now let me also try to answer your question ! Well , here is a link which I felt has relatively good translations , though it still leavea a LOT of room for improvement :

The people are exceedingly musical, and learned to a remarkable degree in their arts and sciences, especially geometry and astronomy. Their cities are equipped with vast palaces of music, where not infrequently as many as twenty-five thousand lusty voices of this giant race swell forth in mighty choruses of the most sublime symphonies.

The children are not supposed to attend institutions of learning before they are twenty years old. Then their school life begins and continues for thirty years, ten of which are

p. 131

uniformly devoted by both sexes to the study of music.
**It is noteworthy that roughly one-third of all Vedic literature is devoted to classical Vedic music and singing . Out of the 4 Vedas i.e. Rig , Yajur , Sam and Atharva , the Sam Veda (Rig Veda in a musical form) is almost exclusively devoted to music and singing .

Regards

Well, this is interesting. Again this reminds me of Hebrew and other
ancient languages with multiple meanings and systems in place for multiple
layers, compression and obfuscation.

Now, having said this, I believe we are in a unique situation that should
facilitate an expansion to our ability: I don't see why we could not start
an effort that would facilitate a "traditional" translation and then being
able to hover or drop down words to give the other meanings as well for
words. So in your example, the word "go" might be used, but when you click
it it would be able to have the other meanings selected to be seen and
read... Or if a change in one word could affect other word selection
dictates as well, then it could dynamically modify those. And of course
this can be expanded even further. This sounds like a very worthwhile and
fruitful project... But..... how to even get started? How to access the
appropriate gurus that have the deeper understandings? Are there
dictionaries that have these things? How did you learn such things and
what is your resource? Etc. Etc...

We could always take this off-list if you have some interest in discussing
further and in a more comfortable setting.

illumination00 wrote:

Dean, regarding inner shores, "The Smoky God" relates
https://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/smog/smog04.htm:

One day soon after this, I felt exceedingly drowsy, and fell into a sound
sleep. But it seemed that I was almost immediately aroused by my father's
vigorous shaking of me by the shoulder and saying: "Olaf, awaken; there is
land in sight!"
I sprang to my feet, and oh! joy unspeakable! There, far in the distance,
yet directly in our path, were lands jutting boldly into the sea. The
shore-line stretched far away to the right of us, as far as the eye could
see, and all along the sandy beach were waves breaking into choppy foam,
receding, then going forward again, ever chanting in monotonous thunder
tones the song of the deep. The banks were covered with trees and
vegetation.
I cannot express my feeling of exultation at this discovery. My father
stood motionless, with his hand on the tiller, looking straight ahead,
pouring out his heart in thankful prayer and thanksgiving to the gods Odin
and Thor.

Soretna,

Yes, Sanskrit is hard to learn. I did two semesters of Latin and that was hard enough, but latin is a mere spin off from Sanskrit.

Sanskrit does have a context, and that context is known because the Hindu culture is a direct descendant from the Vedic culture. The majority of the context has been conserved by the brahmin community, and you have brahminical linages that are continuations of the same communities, or clans, that were active when the Bhagavad Gita was spoken. A word often acquires its meaning from the way it is employed by the speaker or writer, from the speaker's intention. The people, and usage, define a language. This is the context.

I'll give an example. In the Bhagavat Purana I have always seen the word time corrolated with "kala" in Sanskrit, and kala is a word meaning time. But I see kala translated and used in the Vedic astrological literature as "planetary influence" because the planets indicate the effects of time. Astrology is considered a study of time, which is why it is called "hora shastra", the scriprures about time. Hora is the same word as "hour", and in romance languages it is still written with that pronunciation, "h-o-r-a". That word made its way from Sanskrit untouched.

So you may say it's complicated and such, but the Hindu brahmins aren't confused. They understand both contexts of the word "kala", because the conceptual context has been conserved by their Hindu culture. They argue amonst themselves about some things, but they split hairs more than anything.

Sanskrit is taught in the high schools in India, in the universities, and the brahmins use it, just like the Vedic astrologers do. I mean the brahmins still practice Vedic astrology. They still learn astrology from books written in Sanskrit.

In Vedic times, learning was passed down by oral transmission because humans had photographic memories, just as they lived for 900 - 1,000 years, and grew to 9 and 10 feet tall. And the warrior caste even taller. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami said in a tap lecture that I hard that Arjuna was 12 feet tall because he was from the Kashtariya/warrior community. Lo and behold, Olaf Jansen described the king of the inner world as being taller than the others, and it's because he was from the warrior caste.

The Vedic mantras that were mystic don't work because it is Kali Yuga, and in the Vedic literature it is stated that the Vedic mantras don't function in kali Yuga. We can surmise that this is not due to magical reasons, it is just that the unrefined rays of The Sun shower down a torrent of radiation at such frequencies that the vibrations of the mantras don't project out of the brahmin's brain, nor from his brahmincal thread they get get showered out, so to speak.

And thanks to the same unrefined rays, the brahmin's brain is not strong enough to traansmit with any strength. This suggests that a frequency emiter (oscillator?) transmitting on the right notes, so to speak, might be able to punch through and do the job; if the mantras are known.

Any comments ?

Dean

Dean , this is a good analysis by you .
The basic style used by the Vedic Rishis when they compiled the Sanskrit Shlokas of the Vedas was - "Pun is always intended" :)) So if one goes by the literal translation , it will often result in a meaning that was NOT intended by the sages !
In my earlier note , I had mentioned how the word "go" , actually pronounced "gau" (notice how similar it sounds to the English word "cow") had 8 meanings , only one of which is cow . "Go/Gau" was one of the commonly used words in the Vedic Shlokas .

Guess what happened when over a long period of time , people forgot the original interpretation and started going by literal meanings ? The cow became no less than a sacred Holy Goddess in Hinduism as it exists today ! Almost certainly , this was NOT intended by the Vedic sages who compiled those shlokas .

**Yes, the cow is very important to the story of human civilisation that started with settled life and agriculture - the cow is clearly the most valuable animal to man . Yes , the cow deserves respect , and being a Hindu I do not eat beef , but I personally believe , the cow would not have been elevated to the kind of exalted status it enjoys in contemporary Hinduism , but for misinterpretation of the Vedic shlokas .

There are other misinterpretations that have happened over thousands of years , which made Hinduism deviate from the original Vedic principles , but I guess the example I gave above for the cow , is a good indication of how things can get skewed over time .
On a different note , digressing just a bit - if we compare Vedic culture , with our 21st century beliefs , we find that there is a lot of emphasis on being goal oriented . This again is a distortion of a Vedic philosophy that emphasised on developing competency and excellence in oneself and NOT chasing goals . It was believed that if one performs to their fullest potential , the results would definitely be good . This was related to the idea of mindfulness , which means , do not waste your time dwelling/brooding about the past , or planning for your future , focus 100% of your mind on the present moment and you will become far more effective in whatever you are doing . Thinking continuously about the result does NOT bring success...rather it distracts oneself from the true focus - that of developing one's competency & skill in life . Bhagvad Geeta also covers this philosophy in great detail - something that has often been misunderstood by many modern thinkers , as "being fatalistic" , or leaving things to chance . The Bhagvad Geeta says - you can only control your own actions , not the outcome...

Now coming back to the topic - another key aspect was the allegorical nature of the Vedic texts and the powerful symbolism used to convey meanings . Much of the Vedic symbolism revolved around animals . Sample this unusual topic for example , that has some highly profound shlokas in the Rig Veda :
"Sarama the guard dog and the cattle she was herding"

Does the above topic evoke any sense of spirituality or poetry ?? Why then does such a mundane topic find place in a hallowed religious text such as the Rig Veda ? How can such an ordinary topic inspire such lofty philosophy , as seen in the Vedas ?

If you are feeling this way , don't be surprised because this literal meaning was NOT the interpretation intended by the Vedic sages . This topic is actually about the dog star Sirius and the stars of an associated constellation in space...

Now , the other big question is why then did Sanskrit decline so much in importance ? Well , the biggest cause was the breakdown in the Gurukul system of education , which in turn was caused by wave after wave of invaders who started attacking India after Kalyug started .
***As per Vedic belief , knowledge was free and no Guru or teacher could ever ask for upfront fees . Now this may sound counter-intuitive , but it worked just fine in Indian society for a very long time . The next question is - if education was free , why did everyone not get it's benefit ?

That is because , in Vedic culture , you could approach a Guru for education , but the Guru had to first accept you as their pupil and only those considered worthy by the Guru (as per Vedic principles) would get accepted . To cut a long story short , think of that famous Chinese martial arts movie "36 Chambers of Shaolin" - in that movie , they show how difficult it was for students to gain acceptance of their teacher . I feel that depiction best describes the teacher/student relations that existed in Vedic times . At the end of their education , each student would gift their Guru , something called "Guru Dakshina" , which could be in cash or kind . It was totally left to the student what they could afford to give . So , rich students would gift more Dakshina , poor students would pay much less for the exact same education and it was accepted with equal respect .
During the course of the education , the student had to show complete obedience to the Guru who became like the parent of the student. The student would reside at the Ashram (residence) of the Guru , through the entire duration of their education , with no intervention from their own parents or family members . The Ashrams were located in forest areas and used to house hundreds of students , in addition to the Guru himself and the Guru's family . The students would also serve the Guru and carry out domestic chores in his Ashram , right through the duration of their stay .

Of course , such an austere & monk-like system of education could be sustained for thousands of years , only because the Vedic Gurus were men of absolutely impeccable integrity , immense knowledge and deepest spirituality . They don't make teachers like that anymore :))

Regards

deandddd wrote:

Soretna,

Yes, Sanskrit is hard to learn. I did two semesters of Latin and that was hard enough, but latin is a mere spin off from Sanskrit.
Sanskrit does have a context, and that context is known because the Hindu culture is a direct descendant from the Vedic culture. The majority of the context has been conserved by the brahmin community, and you have brahminical linages that are continuations of the same communities, or clans, that were active when the Bhagavad Gita was spoken. A word often acquires its meaning from the way it is employed by the speaker or writer, from the speaker's intention. The people, and usage, define a language. This is the context.
I'll give an example. In the Bhagavat Purana I have always seen the word time corrolated with "kala" in Sanskrit, and kala is a word meaning time. But I see kala translated and used in the Vedic astrological literature as "planetary influence" because the planets indicate the effects of time. Astrology is considered a study of time, which is why it is called "hora shastra", the scriprures about time. Hora is the same word as "hour", and in romance languages it is still written with that pronunciation, "h-o-r-a". That word made its way from Sanskrit untouched.
So you may say it's complicated and such, but the Hindu brahmins aren't confused. They understand both contexts of the word "kala", because the conceptual context has been conserved by their Hindu culture. They argue amonst themselves about some things, but they split hairs more than anything.
Sanskrit is taught in the high schools in India, in the universities, and the brahmins use it, just like the Vedic astrologers do. I mean the brahmins still practice Vedic astrology. They still learn astrology from books written in Sanskrit.
In Vedic times, learning was passed down by oral transmission because humans had photographic memories, just as they lived for 900 - 1,000 years, and grew to 9 and 10 feet tall. And the warrior caste even taller. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami said in a tap lecture that I hard that Arjuna was 12 feet tall because he was from the Kashtariya/warrior community. Lo and behold, Olaf Jansen described the king of the inner world as being taller than the others, and it's because he was from the warrior caste.
The Vedic mantras that were mystic don't work because it is Kali Yuga, and in the Vedic literature it is stated that the Vedic mantras don't function in kali Yuga. We can surmise that this is not due to magical reasons, it is just that the unrefined rays of The Sun shower down a torrent of radiation at such frequencies that the vibrations of the mantras don't project out of the brahmin's brain, nor from his brahmincal thread they get get showered out, so to speak.
And thanks to the same unrefined rays, the brahmin's brain is not strong enough to traansmit with any strength. This suggests that a frequency emiter (oscillator?) transmitting on the right notes, so to speak, might be able to punch through and do the job; if the mantras are known.
Any comments ?
Dean #yiv9073709665 #yiv9073709665 -- #yiv9073709665ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv9073709665 #yiv9073709665ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv9073709665 #yiv9073709665ygrp-mkp #yiv9073709665hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv9073709665 #yiv9073709665ygrp-mkp #yiv9073709665ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9073709665 #yiv9073709665ygrp-mkp .yiv9073709665ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9073709665 #yiv9073709665ygrp-mkp .yiv9073709665ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9073709665 #yiv9073709665ygrp-mkp .yiv9073709665ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9073709665 #yiv9073709665ygrp-sponsor #yiv9073709665ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv9073709665 #yiv9073709665ygrp-sponsor #yiv9073709665ygrp-lc #yiv9073709665hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv9073709665 #yiv9073709665ygrp-sponsor #yiv9073709665ygrp-lc .yiv9073709665ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 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Sidhartha,

It rings a bell when you speak of literal meanings. I always have that feeling with Hindus and when I ws in India, literal, but the understanding, the meaning behind it all, the wisdom, the judgement, always seemed to be off kilter.

You know, they will say that in the scriptures it is said that if I pay my respects to my mother and father, then I am worshipping Vishnu, or something like that; so I don't have to belong to any temple, I worship Vishnu at home. That kind of thing.

The proper context is known, though, in the educated brahmin community and in the educational institutions; it is just that there are vast segments of the population that are off kilter.

One area in which the context is not so well understood are in the Puranic astronomical descriptions of the universe; and in the part about there being underground worlds and a hollow earth. Clueless!!!

Dean