Looking for some articles on Lucifer being outside the Christian/Satanism World-view. Lucifer within Witchcraft, Paganism or other cultures. My Group (link below) has this as a focus of our thinking.
Picidae
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"He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great understanding, for belief in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom."
Picidae,
Let´s keep it on topic, ´lease. I don´t expect anymore posts like
this.
Sometimes I go to other lists with our hollow Earth posting, but it
always has some connection to the list. I never just barge in and
post somethng completely of topic.
Even so, I´ll volunteer that the fantasticreality list is right down
your alley:
Regards,
Dean
Christian/Satanism World-view. Lucifer within Witchcraft, Paganism
or other cultures. My Group (link below) has this as a focus of our
thinking.
Well.......................!
Who do you think might rule a hollow earth on the inside or in the
underworld between the hollow inside and the outside where we live?
If this isn't the perfect place to ask my question I sure don't know
where to find the perfect place. I have even posted things from you
group at my group to make the connection often.
If I was looking for the "traditional" christian or religious answer
I would not have ask this question here.
Am I any clearer now?
Picidae
Picidae,
Very well, then. We shall relate it to the Hollow Earth and cavern
worlds theory.
Let´s ask for evidence that demoniac species inhabit the crust of the
Earth and that they torment captured humans; and/or that they capture
their astral bodies at death and drag them down.
Here is something, at least:
http://www.holloworbs.com/Prussia.htm
Mike Mott´s book has other information.
Dean
Thanks for considering.
I can provide no evidence and do not know that I believe in what you
are asking me for. I search for information to ponder in order to
decide matters of interest to me. As I stated........I am not
interested in the Christian or Satanist world-view. I have my whole
life starting as a child my earliest memories are of "entities" that
lived within the earth. At that time I felt their entry point was
below the seas/oceans and they flew out from there and around the
earth's crust and related to people. Once in my backyard as a young
child. So...........I'm just looking for information to tie things
I know to what I don't know and thought this would be the place to
help with that. Should this line of thought pan out, I will share
these concepts within my own group.
Picidae
but
right
of
great
beginning
around
Picidae,
The page which I offered is really along these lines. Do consider it,
it is documented testimony from a time when there was not much in the
way of censure: Best Online Casinos Australia - Trusted AU Pokies Picks
Floyd Collins was a man who lived in Kentuky in the early 1900s, I
believe. He had the habit of exploring caves, and one day, a cave
fell in onhim. His father and others tried to pull him back from
behind, but he was wedged down with his upper torso extending into a
cavern and his hands pinned down. The pressure finally took his life.
During the time they were trying to help him, he screamed that he was
being tormented and beaten by brownish goblin-type entities.
Something like this.
This would be something good to research. Mike Mott knows a bit about
it. You can find a page or two about the guy on the web.
Cavers and spelunkers have also had experiences with such entities,
sightings.
Tolkien based his descriptions on folkloric accounts, i.e., it all
must have some factual basis.
Shall we continue?
Dean
As I stated........I am not
I just posted this on my group.
Shall we continue..........Of course, if that pleases you. I've read
the storys on the large worms at the bottom of the ocean living in
the heat of the underground steam vents (and the bible connection to
this they say). I read about the miners who have hear the screams
of hell from the center of the earth,....etc, etc,.
All Christian influenced stuff..........your group seems to imply a
living community below the crust to which I am interested in
discussing and pondering the relations to my understand of Lucifer
(not the christian understanding).
Picidae
Underground Abductions: Whereto?
http://www.holloworbs.com/underground_abductions.htm
On page 175 of Alien Identities, Dr. Richard L Thompson (
http://www.afn.org/~bvi ) relates an underground abduction case
where the underground base was accessed through the sea by UFO:
" On the evening of January 3, 1979, Cardenas, his friend Fernando
Marti, and Marti's wife and 13 year old daughter were driving around
on the outskirts of Hialeah, looking for a pig they could buy for a
roast. They were unsuccessful, and on the way home their car engine
quit.
The two men testified that the lights and starter wouldn't work, and
so they got out and began to look under the hood. At this point,
they suddenly saw red and violet alternating lights reflecting off
the engine and heard a sound like `many bees.' ... Filiberto felt
paralyzed, and he began to rise in the air shouting " Don't take me,
don't take me." Later he recounted a strange and elaborate story
that began when he awoke to find himself sitting, paralyzed, in the
presence of a robot-like being and two men in tight-fitting
suits. ... Filiberto said the alien beings looked quite human. They
had elongated eyes with eyelashes, small flattened noses, long
lipless mouths, and light beards. They also wore a symbol on the
right of their chests, consisting of a serpent on a lazy X.
The story becomes even more extraordinary: The beings proceeded to
take Filiberto to an underground base, traveling beneath the sea at
high speed through a tunnel of " firmed water " that seemed to open
in front of the craft so that water did not touch it. At the base,
he met a human who was working with the aliens, and he was led
through what seemed like a city."
Dr. Thompson goes on to relate that Filiberto had several
experiences while in this underground base accessed through the sea,
some of them biological, some of them suggestive of mind control,
then he was finally dropped of again on the surface.
And here is another account of an underground UFO abduction: " Betty
Andreason ( Alien Identities, page 201 ) recalled being taken in a
UFO through a tunnel bored through solid rock. This tunnel led
through a strange landscape with a view of an ocean, a distant city
and a pyramid."
An account from the Bhagavat Purana, Canto Nine, Canto 3, Texts 28 –
29, does not describe abductions, nor materialistic nor demoniac
beings, but it does describe an underground kingdom, in this case an
undersea one. " King Saryati begot three sons, named Uttanabarhi,
Anarta and Bhurishena. From Anarta came a son named Revata. Oh
Maharaj Parikshit, subduer of the enemies, this Revata constructed a
kingdom known as Kushasthali in the depths of the ocean. There he
lived and rules such tracts of land as Anarta, etc. He had 100 very
nice sons, of whom the eldest was Kakudmi."
It seems that not all UFO abductees end up being taken to mother
ships en route to different worlds, and that not all who remain in
this world stay on the surface- some end up below the surface.
Dr. Thompson opens up the section entitled " Abductions and
Crossbreeding " with the following words on the folklore of Northern
Europe: " Abduction is a standard theme in traditional fairy tales
(which must be distinguished from the expurgated versions intended
for modern children ). In these stories, men and children are often
abducted out of lust by fairies of the opposite sex. Children are
also taken, and it is said that a fairy child, called a changeling,
may be substituted for a human child. Just as we find in UFO cases,
it seems that Sex desire and genetic considerations are involved in
these abductions. In support of this, Vallee cited Edwin Hartland, a
scholar of fairy traditions, as to the reasons people in Northern
European countries gave for this abduction of children: ` The motive
usually assigned to fairies in Northern stories is that of
preserving and improving their race, on the one hand by carrying off
human children to be brought up among the elves and to become united
with them, and on the other hand by obtaining the milk and fostering
care of human mothers for their own offspring.'"
He then narrates several legends which illustrate such abductions
very nicely on page 300 of Alien Identities:
" Here is a traditional Celtic story in which the abduction theme is
combined with a visit from another world. The Sidhe-king Manannan
Mac Lir once got tired of his wife Fand, and she went to Ireland
with her sister Libian with the hope of marrying the hero
Cuchulainn. They took the form of to birds and rested on a lake in
Ulster where Cuchulainn could see them while hunting.The hero tried
to capture them but failed, and feeling depressed by this, he sat
down by a menhir ( megalithic stone monument ) and went to sleep.
Then he saw two women, dressed in green and crimson cloaks, who
alternately struck him with a whiplike object. After this, he took
to his bed with a strange illness that no Druid or doctor in Ireland
could cure.
For a year, Cuchulainn lay sick without speaking to anyone. Then an
unknown messenger came to him and sang a song promising to cure him
of his malady if he would accept the invitation of the daughters of
Aed Abrat to visit them in the other world. He returned to the place
where he had taken sick and again saw the woman with the green
cloak. She identified herself as Libian and asked him to go with her
to the Plain of Delight to fight Labraid's enemies. She promised him
that as a reward he would obtain Fand as his wife.
In due course, he did this, overthrew Labraid's enemies, and
remained in the other world with Fand for a month. Then he returned
to Ireland and immediately got into trouble with his wife Emer, who
was exceedingly jealous of Fand. Emer obtained from the Druids a
drink that caused Cuchulainn to forget all about the otherworld, and
Manannan Mac Lir decided to take back Fand. Thus Cuchulainns's
abduction into the realm of Sidhe was relatively brief.
The otherworld of the Celts has various names, such as Avalon, Tir
na nog ( Land of Youth ) and Plain of Delight. Examination of the
stories makes it clear that this realm would have to exist in a
higher dimension. To reach it, one must go to the right place in a
three-dimensional space, and then one must travel in a mystical
fashion that we do not understand. We can speak of this as an extra
dimension of travel in to the three we are familiar with.
Since the other world can be reached by mystical travel from this
world, we can speak of it as a parallel reality. This idea can be
understood by imagining jumping back and forth between two parallel
planes which are close together. The planes represent the parallel
realities, and the jumping corresponds to the higher-dimensional
travel.
Time Dilation: This brings us to another theme common in both Vedic
and Celtic stories of mystical travel- the idea that time passes
more slowly in the otherworld than it does in our world. The Celtic
story of Ossian illustrates this. Ossian was enticed into Tir na nog
by a beautiful Siddhe princess. He married her and lived for 300 of
our years in her world. Finally, however, he felt an overpowering
desire to return to Ireland and participate in the counsels of the
Fenian Brotherhood. He set out on the same white horse which had
taken him to the otherworld, and his fairy wife warned him not to
lay his foot on the level ground.
On reaching Ireland, he searched for the brotherhood but found that
all his old companions had passed away and the country as quite
changed. Only then did he realise how long he had truly been away.
Unfortunately, at some point a certain incident forced him to
dismount, and upon touching the Earth he immediately turned into a
feeble, blind old man.
In European folklore there are many stories with similar elements,
including the entry into another world, and the aging or death of
the protagaonist when he realizes how much time has passed in our
world during his absence. Here is a similar story dating back to the
early 19th century. In the vale of Neat, Wales, two farm workers
named Rhya and Llewellyn were walking home one night. Rhys was
attracted by the sound of some mysterious music, but Llewellyn heard
nothing. So Llewellyn continued home while Rhys stayed back to dance
to the tune he had heard. The next day, Rhys didn't show up, and
after a fruitless search, Llewellyn was jailed on suspicion of
murder.
However, a man learned in fairy lore guessed what had happened. On
his advice, a party of men accompanied Llewellyn to the spot where
Rhys was last seen. At this spot, Llewellyn could hear the music of
harps because his foot was touching a " fairy ring." When each of
the other members of the party put his foot on Llewellyn's, he could
hear the music, too, and could see many little people dancing in a
circle. Rhys was among them. When Llewellyn pulled him out of the
circle, Rhys declared that he had only been dancing five minutes. He
could not be convinced that so much time had passed, and he became
depressed, fell ill, and soon died.
" If we turn to Chinese folklore, ... we find a time lapse of
hundreds of years. There is a book entitled " The Report Concerning
the Cave Heavens and Lands of Happiness in Famous Mountains," by Tu
Kuang-t'ing, who lived from 850 to 933 A.D. This book lists
ten 'cave heavens 'and thirty-six 'small cave heavens' that were
supposed to exist beneath the mountains in China. Here are the
reported experiences of a man who entered a passageway leading to
one of these cave heavens:
After walking ten miles, he suddenly found himself in a beautiful
land ' with a clear blue sky, shining pinkish clouds, fragrant
flowers, densely growing willows, towers the color of cinnabar,
pavilions of red jade, and far flung palaces.' He was met by a group
of lovely, seductive women, who brought him to a house of jasper,
and played him beautiful music while he drank ' a ruby-red drink and
a jade-colored juice.' Just as he felt the urge to let himself be
seduced, he remembered his family and returned to the passageway.
Led by a strange light that danced before him, he walked back
through the cave to the outer world; but when he reached his home
village, he did not recognize anyone he saw, and when he arrived at
his house, he met his own descendents of nine generations hence.
They told him that one of their ancestors had disappeared into a
cavern three hundred years before and had never been seen again.'
Here we find the same dilation effect that repeatedly appears in
European Folklore. This effect, plus the fact that the man found
himself in a land with a blue sky and clouds indicates that the cave
passageway led to to a parallel world." [ End of Alien ID narration ]
What is important for the reader to consider is that the other
realms to which the elves, gnomes, wee folk and the like take their
abductees are underground, or accessed from points underground. Some
definitions from the essay Deep Dwellers by Mike Mott expound on
this. The reader may note that these underground worlds are not
synonymous with the hollow portion of the Earth, nor are any of the
underground worlds mentioned in this essay. Rather, they relate to
some inner crust existence.
" Other subterranean countries were Alfheim, a land of eternal
twilight, and home to the unpredictable but often mild-tempered elf-
folk; and Svartalfheim, the kingdom of the dark elves or dwarves, a
stunted, hairy, unfriendly race which was nevertheless quite clever
in terms of technological skills. Nidvellir was another kingdom of
the dwarves, perhaps not as negatively-disposed toward humanity as
those of Svartalfheim. Muspelheim, land of the fire-giants, was also
reached via Yggdrasil, but was separated from all other reaches by
the width of the great vastness of Ginnungagap. Muspelheim was
located in the far southern reaches of the underworld realms."
The reader can now give new validity to the well-known fairy tale
The Pied Piper of Hamlin. In the piper story, we see a similar
thread as was present in the other abduction stories: enchantment
and abduction leading to the underground.
According to Linda Davis, who is the Founder/President of the "
Garden of Missing Children Society," in 1998 some 400,000 children
disappeared in the U.S.A. ( http://www.gomcs.org ). Kidnapping,
runaways, child trade- and double reporting - can account for a
good deal of the total, but what about the rest? We do not want to
sensationalize at the expense of the worry of North American
mothers, but could it be that some children have been taken
underground by the demons of Vedic lore?
It seems that the surface population of our planet has abandoned, or
has been torn away from, its Vedic past, along with the protection
provided by Vedic culture's implicit connection with the Vedic
demigod culture and especially Shree Vishnu. Maybe now we are, to a
large degree, subject to these underground demons who are taking
advantage for their own purposes- We who live a short life under the
harsh, unrefined rays of the Sun while these abusive, asuric
communities shelter themselves within the crust of the Earth.
you are so polite Mr.Dean.....besides if we let in the entire sunami of possibilities Mr. Mott will come out of hiding..(wink, smiles..)
Kato
"During the day I praised you and I didn't know
At night I laid with You and I didn't know
I had thought that I was myself
but I was entirely You and I didn't know"
Jalaluddin Rumi
---------------------------------
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
Besides not on topic, I would refer you to the non-duality perspective for Consciousness upgrades....AND non-judgemental processes.....
sorry DD, couldn't resist...
Kato
"During the day I praised you and I didn't know
At night I laid with You and I didn't know
I had thought that I was myself
but I was entirely You and I didn't know"
Jalaluddin Rumi
---------------------------------
sunami of possibilities Mr. Mott will come out of hiding..(wink,
smiles..)
Not such a bad idea- I wish he would!
DD
Speaking of the Devil, er, ah- I mean Mike Mott, here is some of his
writings on the underworld known as Hell:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mottimorph/EEE.html
Dean
HY DEAN !
I WAS FOR LONG TIME ONLY LURKING HERE, BECAUSE ENHLISH
IS REALY NOT MY MOTHERTONGUE.
I HAVE DOWNLOADED MUCH VALUABLE INFORMATION, AND WANT
TO THANK YOU FOR IT ALL.
BUT ALL THESE INFORMATIONES ARE MORE OR LESS OF THE
SAME KIND,BECOMING BORING WITH THE TIME, EXLUDING
ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PERIODS OF INVESTIGATIONES
ON HOLLOW EARTH DONE BEFOR AND DURING THE TERCER
REICH NAZI.
I´M NEITHER A NATIONALIST NOR AN SOCIALIST, NOR A
GENOCID RACIST BUT BMANY OF THESE INVESTIGATIONS
REMAIN ASOCIATED TO THE LUCIFERIAN MYTHS.
lUCIFER IN THIS GROUP THEREFORE HAS TO BE CONSIDERED
AS EMINENT TOPIC AND NEVER AS NO TOPIC.
LUCIFER IS PART OF THE INVESTIGATIONB OF HOLLOW EARTH.
WQOTHSWULF
WOTHSWULF
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Wothwulf,
May I suggest that you, and all members in fact, go to the "files
section" on the left-hand side of the allplanets-hollow site, the
site that controls the list:
Then scroll down to where it says: "Invisible Eagle.pdf"
There is a whole section in there, a book, practically, on the NAZI
involvemnet in the hollow Earth Theory.
I know that they did some investigation in Antarctica when they
explored New Schwabenland. They knew a lot.
Nice to hear from you. Please get back to us with some comments. We
have several German members on the list and it is always nice to hear
from them.
Yours,
Dean
NOR A
GENOCID RACIST - what kind are you?
HI DEAN
THANKS FOR YOUR USEFUL HINT. I WILL SEND YOU SOME
COMENTS ABOUT THE INDICATED BOOK, BUT GIVE ME SOME
TIME FOR IT, BECAUSE I´M AT THE MOMENT VERY BUSY.
I´M LIVING IN SPAIN AND THERE EXISTS PRACTICALLY NO
CAVE WHICH IS NOT ASSOCIATED TO AN HYSTORICAL
ALQUELARRE - AND THEREFORE TO WHITCHES AND LUCIFER.
WHAT I WANTED TO SAY IN MY LAST MESSAGE, WAS THAT FOR
ME, AS AN EUROPEAN, ANY DISSOCIATION FROM THE
UNDERWORLD AND THE LUCIFERIAN MYTHOLOGY IS
UNTHINKIBLE.
FRIENDLY GREETINGS TO ALL
WOTHSWULF
Jens
Tibetan
Legends
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Sorry
I cannot get that link.Could you help?
Ange