Is positive and negative designation in electricity and magnetism arbitrary?

No, it absolutely CANNOT BE ARBITRARY.

(in this answer I will use the words “plus” and “minus” instead of “positive” and “negative”)

“Plus” is the effect towards outside (expansion, blowing, explosion, yang), “minus” is the effect towards inside (reduction, suctioning, implosion, yin). For example, the act of inhaling is plus, because our chest expands; the act of exhaling is minus, because it reduces in size.

From the history of electromagnetism it is known that Benjamin Franklin (1705-1790) is the man who was the first to introduce the terms “positive” and “negative”, i.e. “plus/minus” in the field of electricity in the middle of the 18th century. Previously, the different types of electricity had been called “vitreous” (meaning “glass”) and “resinous” (meaning “amber”), since the glass and the amber were the most often rubbed objects to produce the opposite electricities. At the time when Franklin gave his contribution, people had actually spoken of two types of electric fluids; however, Franklin argued that there is only one electric fluid, and the excess and the shortage of it in the objects he called “plus” and “minus”. He said that bodies in normal condition have medium amounts of this fluid and are therefore neutral. When two objects are rubbed against each other, one allegedly transfers a part of its fluid to the other and thus the first becomes minus-, and the second object plus-electrified.

That these things (i.e. plus and minus in the electricity and in the magnetism) are not arbitrary, I have a proof which I call an ultimate proof. A proof is ultimate when we perceive the truth immediately (directly, unmediated) with our senses, in this case, with our eyes.

If we rotate the discs of a Wimshurst machine by turning the crank manually to the right in a dark room (the most noticeable results can be seen at night in a room with a little exterior street light entering it), and if we do this for at least 10-15 seconds to let the eyes get used to the feeble light, we will notice that the horizontal quadrants emit a light flicker, whereas the vertical are completely dark. On turning the crank to the left the flicker relocates to the vertical quadrants, whereas the horizontal ones now remain dark. Looking even more attentively at the scene, we will notice an essential qualitative difference between what happens in the left and the right quadrant (i.e. the upper and the lower one when the crank is turned to the left). The flicker in one horizontal quadrant is directed from the metal sectors outwards, in the other one inwards. In other words, in the left quadrant the metal sectors are dark and the flickering light glows around them, but in the right quadrant the metal sectors are illuminated and around them it is dark.

The metallic sectors in the image are drawn as a whole, and not individually, because the light phenomenon appears as a whole; more precisely, as two wholes, one left and one right, and not individually in the sectors.

The electricity of the left quadrant (picture on the left) is the same as the vitreous electricity; the electricity of the right quadrant is the same as the resinous electricity. I will not explain how this is determined, because this answer will become much longer (you can check it out here So, if Benjamin Franklin has determined what is positive and negative about electricity, he did it right.

If we fill the middle of a ring magnet (taken out of a small loudspeaker) with iron filings, then we tap the magnet to allow the iron powder to freely take its shape, a difference between the one and the other side becomes clearly visible. At the pole which points North a form of blowing is evident (as if we put the lips forward), and at the pole that points South a form of suction (as if we put the lips inwards). Hence, the plus-pole with an effect outwards is the magnetic South pole of the Earth, and the minus-pole with an effect inwards is the magnetic North pole of the Earth.

As a further evidence I want to share an interesting experiment I came across in the book Physik, Volume 2, from the author Hermann von Baravalle (pages 83–84).
Look please at the setup below.
When high DC voltage is connected to it, then sparks start to jump across the upper part of the circuit.

As soon as the poles of the voltage source are reversed, then sparks start to jump across the lower part of the circuit (circuit below).

The two different kind of ends where the sparks jump are a thick sharpened wire and a round metal plate.

In this experiment we see that the sparks appear only in the branch where the Plus is connected to the sharpened metal wire, while the Minus to the metal plate. Since the Plus means blowing, the Minus means suctioning, it is much easier for the electricity to bridge this gap than the other, because very high pressure is created at the sharpened point. We all know that the water-jet which comes out of a pipe will reach farther if we narrow the pipe. This comparison is valuable for understanding of what happens. At the same time, the suctioning is greater if the suctioning area is bigger. (see also this article: The Bernoulli’s principle can be found in the electric current, too – Electromagnetism – New Theories Forum )

Here is another evidence that the electricity flows de facto from the Plus to the Minus pole of the battery. When a carbon arc lamp is connected to a DC source, the positive carbon electrode dissipates, while the negative electrode remains pretty intact. When this lamp was used in the 19th century as a street lamp, they had to move the positive electrode closer from time to time, since the positive electrode's dissipation had as a result increased distance between the electrodes and the lamp stopped to shine (i.e. with the increased distance the applied voltage was not sufficient to make an arc).
This is approximately the form of the carbon electrodes before and after some time of use:

When the electrodes are connected to an AC source, then the electrodes dissipate equally and there develops no difference in their form.

Let me jump to the question what a battery is. A battery can be regarded as a container of dissolved agent (acid, base or salt) wherein two plates of different metals are partly immersed. Instead of one metal plate, a graphite rod can also serve. Just as there is an exception to every rule, so it is in the electromagnetism. Carbon is a special and unique case of a non-metal that is conductor of electricity. Consequently, it is also a good electrode in a battery.

When two rods (say graphite and zinc) are partly immersed in a dissolved agent, then the part of the graphite rod which is outside the liquid is polarized in one sense (plus), the immersed part in the opposite sense (minus). For the zinc plate applies the opposite. The two rods of the battery can be imagined as two fans. The one that is blowing outside the liquid (positive electrode = graphite), it is suctioning inside the liquid; the one that is suctioning outside the liquid (negative electrode = zinc), it is blowing inside it. When the electrodes are connected with a metal wire, a closed flux is created.
And look now: if we open a "dead" carbon-zinc AA battery, we will see that the zinc jar is completely dissolved, while the carbon rod in the middle is quite good. Why so? Because the part of the zinc jar which is in contact with the acidic solution behaves as positive and the movement is always from the positive to the negative.

I have recently found an evidence that also Franklin, contrary to the claims of many people, didn't assign the positive sign to the vitreous and the negative sign to the resinous electricity completely randomly. Here is a quotation from the book "THEORIES OF AETHER AND ELECTRICITY - FROM THE AGE OF DESCARTES TO THE CLOSE OF THE NINETEENTH CENTURY" from E.T.Whittaker (1910)

"Some curiosity will naturally be felt as to the considerations which induced Franklin to attribute the positive character to vitreous rather than to resinous electricity. They seem to have been founded on a comparison of the brush discharges from conductors charged with the two electricities; when the electricity was resinous, the discharge was observed to spread over the surface of the opposite conductor "as if it flowed from it." Again, if a Leyden jar whose inner coating is electrified vitreously is discharged silently by a conductor, of whose pointed ends one is near the knob and the other near the outer coating, the point which is near the knob is seen in the dark to be illuminated with a star or globule, while the point which is near the outer coating is illuminated with a pencil of rays; which suggested to Franklin that the electric fluid, going from the inside to the outside of the jar, enters at the former point and issues from the latter. And yet again, in some cases the flame of a wax taper is blown away from a brass ball which is discharging vitreous electricity, and towards one which is discharging resinous electricity. But Franklin remarks that the interpretation of these observations is somewhat conjectural, and that whether vitreous or resinous electricity is the actual electric fluid is not certainly known." (pages 44-45)

The bolding of the text stems from me. As I found in the dictionary, a "wax taper" means a candle. Therefore, the flame of the candle is blown away from a vitreously electrified object; however, it is blown towards a resinously electrified one.

Franklin's remark that his interpretation of the observations is somewhat conjectural can only mean that he was not completely sure and wanted even more experimental evidence.

The only “evidence” of the contemporary physics, that the electricity flows from the negative to the positive, is the cathode ray tube. Here is what I have to say about this tube:
Cathode rays are actually not cathode rays!

Please see also this short YouTube videos:


Fantastic analysis , @Mitko_Gorgiev - mind blowing !


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@Mitko_Gorgiev , I think the dynamic double torus shape from Sacred Geometry beautifully explains this fundamental "flow" of energy at all scales of the Cosmos , from the sub-atomic to the Galactic scale...this apparent "inward suction" at the North Polar opening and the apparent "outward blowing" at the South Polar opening :-

**Electricity does NOT actually flow through the wires (!!!!) - here's an amazing eye opener :-

***This proves that Tesla was right all along when he talked about WIRELESS transmission of electricity - even across continents !

Also , the dynamic double torus phenomenon is exactly what drives the "Primer Fields" or bowl shaped electromagnetic fields , intrinsic to our Holographic Universe , at all scales , as described by David LaPoint in Plasma Universe theory :-


Notice and add in Lori's observations on Primer Bowls:

(She wants the viewer to figure it out, but it's a double Primer Bowl arrangement:)

Great videos @Soretna , hopefully the concept of Primer Fields should reach mainstream Academia sooner than later !


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I really need to spend more time contemplating @Mitko_Gorgiev's work and compare and contrast his efforts with the others we've been discussing in more detail. I like how he's thinking out of the box and working on creating a cogent coherent picture.

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@Soretna , I was wondering - what if the positive charge and negative charge could simply be understood as the North Polar Opening and South Polar Opening respectively of a dynamic double torus...the beauty of that hollow form from Sacred Geometry is that it can also be used as the framework/template for the true (actual) internal structure of Galaxies , stars , planets and even atoms .

Primer field concept derives so easily from the dynamic double torus .

Anybody who has deeply studied electricity for long would have realised , it is NOT about electrons flowing in a neat straight line , like pieces of luggage moving along a conveyor belt at an airport :)) There is a "SPIRALITY" inherent to the flow of energy - including for electricity .

***The mysterious Coriolis effect also applies to the flow of electromagnetic energy...we see it even on planets eg. the reverse direction of flow of tides and winds in opposite hemispheres of Earth . It is evident in the flow of plasma current on our Sun as well…only the dynamic double Torus can explain each of these phenomena , at each scale of our Cosmos - from the microcosm to the macrocosm , a firm proof for our Holographic Universe !


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LOL!!! :rofl: You made me really laugh. :+1:
That fairy tale about moving tiny marbles through the wires will in the next 50 years land in the trash heap of the history, where it actually belongs.
The electric current is nothing else than a vibration.

Do you know the kids string telephone?

How does the sound propagate through the string? It is just a vibration, isn’t it?
The very same concept applies for the electric current.

What is it that vibrates? To understand it you have to visualize a new notion of the matter: if we, so to say, descend ever deeper and deeper in the matter, at the end we come to nothing. But this “nothing” is actually not nothing. It is invisible, intangible, immaterial forces: electromagnetic forces, light forces etc. The matter at the end, so to say, “dissolves” in immaterial forces.

The electric field around an electrified object as well as the magnetic field around a magnetized object are immaterial, aren’t they? So, if these fields condensate in a sense, they create the matter.
So, we could say that the matter is a kind of condensation of immaterial forces.

When electric current is flowing through the wire, those forces are vibrating and the action propagates through the wire. It forms a helical magnetic field. Look please at this helix:

Imagine that you are turning this helix to the right holding it on the near end (where the red arrow is). Is something moving from right to left? You can say “yes”, but you can also say “no”, because the helix doesn’t change its place.

My experiments which show that the electricity is flowing in an open circuit undoubtedly prove that the electric current is just a vibration.

P.S. I am not fond of quantum physics at all, but recently I found this on Facebook:

Very true @Mitko_Gorgiev , you echo my a deeper level of reality this is ultimately tied to consciousness itself :-


Morphogenesis of reality, seen as a fractal process of information unfolding, either (bottom up) from an implicate order frequency domain (below) up to the Planck scale, producing elementary particles, atoms, life molecules for the build-up of whole structure of the cells and organs such as the brain. All elements are proposed to be equipped with a toroidal memory workspace (consciousness) in a scale invariant manner. Universal information processing finally results in a black hole/white hole structure that (top-down) transmits information for the fabric of reality, thereby constituting a circular (rebound) mode of our universe (for bidirectional information flow, see large arrows at the two sides of the figure).

Source publication

processes in the light of currently defined ideas on the societal flow of knowledge and conservation of information, using the versatile physical concept of toroidal geometry. This should be seen as a heuristic model that is open for further development and evolution. The scientific process, has been often described as a iterative and/or recurrent...


PDF from linked article:

@Soretna , I just thought - Davidson's ideas of "shape power" , that are based on Sacred Geometry , fit in very nearly into this framework .