blake and john mc fun :) (a bit off topic)

Frei_Blake · December 8, 2000, 7:05pm

John,
More God stuff...

Scriptures are clear (Biblical, in this case) that there are many Gods...

Genesis 3:5

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be
opened, and ye shall be as GODS, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in OUR image, after our likeness: and let them
have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and
over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that
creepeth upon the earth.

The point of confusion between the LDS church and other beliefs comes from
(1) understanding the nature of God, and (2) knowing whom to worship.
Everyone agrees that we are only supposed to worship one God, our creator.
Because other mainstream theologies have had no revelation concerning the
nature of God, and continue to misinterpret scripture, they think that there
is only one God. This belief originates from a doctrine mandated at the
council of Nicene by some men who never saw God or knew Christ. Further,
people have taken the good belief all should worship only one God to an
extreme by saying that Christ and God must, therefore, be the same person.

Just because a Mormon will claim that there are many gods, or that we have
the potential to be like God, doesn't mean we worship all of them. We
worship God the Father (Elohim), who is our creator and the creator of
countless worlds and people. He is THE MAN. We believe he is the father of
Jesus Christ (Jehovah) and all those who have lived on this earth. We
worship God the Father through Jesus Christ, our brother, because following
Christ's example is the only way to return to God. Equal respect is given to
both God the Father and Jesus Christ because they are equals in both purpose
and righteousness, but each play different roles. Christ is the example, the
Savior of this people and this world. Under the Father's supervision, Christ
is a "creator" because he created this physical world and all things on (and
in) it. (Whereas God the Father created us and the world spiritually,
first). We pray to the Father in Christ's name, as instructed. Christ, in
every respect, is like his father. That accounts for two Gods right there.

We know that by following Christ's example we can become like God. It's a
sweet message. Not everyone agrees with it--and, quite frankly, I don't
understand why.

Blake

john mcalpin wrote:

rod

i, personally, have no problem with this multiple god's
concept; however, as i said, i would normally prefer to use
some other term than "God" (at least, God with a capital G) to
refer to this multiplicity of gods. but, that is a semantics
thing.

i am not at all familiar with this "Archo" thing. what is
this? is the christian mainstream accepting of this
document? and, is there any biblical evidence for the
existence of multiple gods?

john mc

Rodney M. Cluff wrote:

John,

It is interesting that No. 1 item on the list Caiaphas,
High Priest of the Sanhedrim had for condemning Jesus
Christ to death was: "First, with teaching the doctrine
that there are more gods than one, which is contrary to the
teachings of Jewish law, which he (Jesus) most positively
refuses to desist from in the presence of this court."

p. 114, The Archo Volume, the historical records of Jesus.

It would seem that "mainstream christianity" is more inline
with the Jewish relgion rather than what Jesus taught. The
LDS religion comes directly from Jesus Christ, no changes,
no if's, ors, ands or buts. It is the gospel of Jesus Christ
restored in its purity -- the true christian religion.

In fact, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is
destined to become the mainstream religion during this
millennium. In a recent article in US
News and World Report, it was reported that because of it's
rapid growth, the LDS church will be the 2nd largest christian
religion by 2080. That's because we adhere strictly to
the actual teachings of Jesus Christ, who is it's head.

Rod

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(mcalpijh wrote:

<html><body>
<tt>
 
blake :) 
 
with your belief about "god" / "gods," it is no
wonder why the 
mainstream christian community view you and your church as a 
cult. your beliefs are very different from the christian 
mainstream. 
 
this is NOT a condemnation of you or your church !!! it is 
just an observation :) 
 
i totally understand your perspective about god and gods, and 
basically i can see the possibility of the truth in it. the 
problem is simply one of semantics (in other words, there is 
NO problem) hehe i just dont define the term
"god" in 
the same way you do. 
 
for me, "god" is that universal matrix of consciousness
from 
which ALL other things have sprung - this would include the 
things which you call gods. 
 
one of these days i am going to have to join your church :) 
 
john mc 
 
:) 
 
p.s. OH -- another question for you... please tell me
what 
the mormon church teaches "The Holy Spirit" to actually be.
 
what exactly IS "The Holy Spirit" from the Mormon
perspective 
?? 
</tt>

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ROY_BARRUS · December 12, 2000, 3:35pm

Blake,

You are doing a good job of representing The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints. One of the questions we all need to ask ourselves
is, even if we do prove the HE theory and are allowed to live there,
what happens when we die? Where do we go? What role do we play? Is
there an organized plan or a purpose to continuing life after this
life? The teachings of the above mentioned church are the only
teachings that I am yet aware of that seem to answer with affirmity what
this plan or purpose is. I hope we have goals and ambitions beyond the
HE alone.

Roy

"Frei, Blake" wrote:

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deandddd · December 12, 2000, 5:23pm

Original subject: List biz

Roy,

That whole conversation was happening on the Hollow Planets list; you have responded to Blake on the allplanets-hollow list.

While I have always been intrigued by the HE stance of the Church of the Latter-Day Saints, I dare to suggest that it would be a bit off topic to talk about the church and its philosophy here.

Your Friend,

Dean.
Blake,
You are doing a good job of representing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. One of the questions we all need to ask ourselves is, even if we do prove the HE theory and are allowed to live there, what happens when we die? Where do we go? What role do we play? Is there an organized plan or a purpose to continuing life after this life? The teachings of the above mentioned church are the only teachings that I am yet aware of that seem to answer with affirmity what this plan or purpose is. I hope we have goals and ambitions beyond the HE alone.

Roy

"Frei

Frei_Blake · December 12, 2000, 7:55pm

Roy,

Thanks for your compliment. Your question is difficult to answer. How does
the HE play into the next life?

Mike Mott offered some scripture earlier from John 14..

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have
told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

The Lord said to Joseph Smith in the 1800s:

"Let not your hearts be troubled; for in my Father's house are many
mansions, and I have prepared a place for you; and where my Father and I am,
there ye shall be also." (D&C 98:18)

Notice the subtle change in tense, from the Bible (I go to prepare a
place...) to the modern Doctrine and Covenants (I have prepared a place...).

Whatever Christ has been up to, he's been busy! But I wouldn't worry about
what is to occur in the next life. If our church is any indication, the Lord
likes to put his people to work and keep them busy. If you don't want to
work, get out of the way.

I guess the more immediate question is, What will people do during the
Millennium? What is that "marvelous work and a wonder" spoken of? I believe
it will be the Church of Jesus Christ working to redeem humanity--past and
present. I believe that if Satan is indeed bound during that time, the veil
will be thinned somewhat and we will work closely with those in the spirit
world, and with the lost tribes of Israel that return. So the HE could play
a large role in whatever occurs, and could be a commonly-visited place.

But are those mansions Christ refers to within the hollow earth? Or are they
other worlds and heavens? Whose to say exactly when or where. Perhaps those
mansions are rewards that are given after the Millennium--which is going to
be a long time!

Blake

Frei_Blake · December 12, 2000, 9:14pm

Right Dean,

Let's make sure to keep anything religious on the Mystical list.

Blake

Dean wrote:

Roy,

That whole conversation was happening on the Hollow Planets list; you have
responded to Blake on the allplanets-hollow list.

While I have always been intrigued by the HE stance of the Church of the
Latter-Day Saints, I dare to suggest that it would be a bit off topic to
talk about the church and its philosophy here.

Your Friend,

Dean.

Blake,

You are doing a good job of representing The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints. One of the questions we all need to ask ourselves is,
even if we do prove the HE theory and are allowed to live there, what
happens when we die? Where do we go? What role do we play? Is there an
organized plan or a purpose to continuing life after this life? The
teachings of the above mentioned church are the only teachings that I am yet
aware of that seem to answer with affirmity what this plan or purpose is. I
hope we have goals and ambitions beyond the HE alone.

Roy

"Frei

64:N/A=466330/?http://www.yahoo.com> Click Here!

deandddd · December 12, 2000, 11:10pm

Blake,

I think that one can say some religious things on this list, but a full-fledged discussion would probably fit in there bette.

Dean

ROY_BARRUS · December 13, 2000, 12:46am

Dean,

Sincerely sorry. : )

Roy

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JanJM · December 15, 2000, 12:11am

As Dean, I also study the Vedic culture and am especially interested in its
traces in later world cultures (archeology, lore etc.). Thus I found Dean's
site at the first place and got into study of HET.

Vedic version is that after death we leave our body and according to our
actions in this life we proceed to another body in another place. There are
basically three directions - up (heavenly spheres), same (earthly spheres) or
down (subterranean/hellish spheres). Descriptions I found till now of HE fit
both into the earthly sphere (bhauma svarga, or arthhly heavens) and
subterranean spheres. Interesting. Fifth skandha of Bhagavata Purana gets into
some details regarding this.

Our role is that of a student in a school. In every moment we are supposed to
learn and proceed to higher and higher spheres, ultimately reaching God's
place.

Blake:

I once heard something about Paradise being underground but couldn't find that
quote in the Bible. Jesus was supposed to descend there after his crucifixion
(he said to one of the criminals on the cross next to him that he will be with
him in Paradise the same day). This could be supported by Jansen's version
about four rivers in HE with the same names as the rivers in Eden of Book of
Genesis. He places the city Eden on a mountain. In Bhagavata Purana I found a
verse that the heavenly Ganga divides on the top of Mt. Meru (or Sumeru) into
four branches. Mt. Meru is a mountain in the center of the Vedic scheme of the
universe and it connects the earth with heaven. On its top are abodes of
Brahma and other devas. (Brahma comes closest to the idea of God the Creator
in Genesis and the top of Mt Meru resembles the Third Heaven, which God
visist, as per description of early Christian theologian Venerable Bede.
Brahma has another abode on top of this universe, Satyaloka. Second skandha of
Bhagavata P. says that the inhabitants of Satyaloka feel compassion for the
suffering beings on lower levels like Earth and descend to help them. Didn't
Jesus do exactly this?). So this Paradise and HE could be identical. It fits
the descriptions of bhauma svarga (seven spheres on the level of this Earth).
Too many coincidences. But to understand this one would need a scheme of the
Vedic universe. There is a new book about this by R. Thompson
(sacreduniverse.com). Dean can post my findings if there is an interest.

Jan2

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