Leslee, For one hundred years academics have been afraid to acknowledge Atlantis, because it would have destroyed their credibility. Even now, Graham Hancock, while clambering over the ruins of this lost civilization, daren't mention the 'A' word, just incase. But, with the advent of a Disney movie, it's suddenly acceptable, even FOUND! My own instinct and Ignatius Donnelly's study leads me to believe the Azores and Caribbean Islands are it's last visible vestiges. My fellow Atlantologist, Arysio, insists he's found it in Indonesia. He has worked on his hypothesis for decades and he's definately found something. But all the things that are in the hollow earth, he places in Atlantis, he thinks it is the lost paradise....he is wrong (in my opinion.) http://www.atlan.org/ It's still an informative web-site. Hazel
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Related thread: Atlantis--ABC-TV-Tonight — Follows the ABC/Disney Atlantis announcement of 10 June 2001
Leslee, For one hundred years academics have been afraid to acknowledge Atlantis, because it would have destroyed their credibility. Even now, Graham Hancock, while clambering over the ruins of this lost civilization, daren't mention the 'A' word, just incase. But, with the advent of a Disney movie, it's suddenly acceptable, even FOUND! My own instinct and Ignatius Donnelly's study leads me to believe the Azores and Caribbean Islands are it's last visible vestiges. My fellow Atlantologist, Arysio, insists he's found it in Indonesia. He has worked on his hypothesis for decades and he's definately found something. But all the things that are in the hollow earth, he places in Atlantis, he thinks it is the lost paradise....he is wrong (in my opinion.) http://www.atlan.org/http://www.atlan.org/ It's still an informative web-site. Hazel
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Hazel (from Dick)... Have been reading around your friend Arysio's Atlantis website. Lots of interesting stuff. But WHY he places ATLANTIS in the Pacific puzzles me.
He also appears to equate Lemuria (MU) with or as Atlantis!
Again, ANOTHER researcher who either never heard much (or certainly never read much) about James Churchward. No one can rightfully criticize (or praise) Churchward until they have fully read his works. Aside from one other member of this list (and yourself) I am not aware of ANY of today's better known researchers who are fully (or even partially) aware of James Churchward . Near total ignorance. Seems incredible to me. A key brick left out of the wall of knowledge they've built.
Hazel, as you probably already know, Churchward lived in India for 30 years, spoke and wrote several languages (including Tamil fluently), obviously loved the country and people. According to him, after the surfaces of MU in the Pacific (and subsequently Atlantis in the Atlantic) collapsed below the waves during the forging of gas belts, he described India's "Independent Colonial Empire" as continuing the motherland's civilization and sciences for a long period of time after the destructions.
But he also praised India for having advanced civilizations going back well before 25,000 years ago. It was to the sacred schools in India, he wrote, students from Egypt and other countries went to study. And it was from ancient India, colonies were established that eventually became Babylonia and Sumer, etc. But if Churchward was correct, the people of India, Burma and much of the area originally arrived there in 3 waves from different departure points on the nearby western side of MU. Of course Indonesia of today was on that route. But these people weren't from Atlantis. It was Thoth establishing the lower Egyptian kingdom at Sais who came from Atlantis. Most of the other ancient colonists in upper Egypt, India, Burma, etc. appear to have earlier come from MU. Your friend seems to be unaware of the preceding - or chooses to focus only on India and Indonesia as the original "motherland." - Dick
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Re: [allplanets-hollow] Atlantis - The Lost ContinentDick, Churchward's credentials speak for themself.
Churchward lived in India for 30 years, spoke and wrote several languages (including Tamil fluently), obviously loved the country and people. According to him, after the surfaces of MU in the Pacific (and subsequently Atlantis in the Atlantic) collapsed below the waves during the forging of gas belts, he described India's "Independent Colonial Empire" as continuing the motherland's civilization and sciences for a long period of time after the destructions.
It could be that Mu and Atlantis practised the same religion, which was a global culture at the time.
But he also praised India for having advanced civilizations going back well before 25,000 years ago. It was to the sacred schools in India, he wrote, students from Egypt and other countries went to study. And it was from ancient India, colonies were established that eventually became Babylonia and Sumer, etc. But if Churchward was correct, the people of India, Burma and much of the area originally arrived there in 3 waves from different departure points on the nearby western side of MU. Of course Indonesia of today was on that route. But these people weren't from Atlantis. It was Thoth establishing the lower Egyptian kingdom at Sais who came from Atlantis. Most of the other ancient colonists in upper Egypt, India, Burma, etc. appear to have earlier come from MU. Your friend seems to be unaware of the preceding - or chooses to focus only on India and Indonesia as the original "motherland
It is odd, and he's so dogmatic about it. But Arysio knows Egypt, he says;
In still other words, the Book of Coming Forth (or Crossing) to Light is the recipe for successfully crossing into Paradise, that is no other than Peru or Meru, another name of Punt or Indonesia. And the Egyptian temple is, again, just a replica of Atlantis as the site of Paradise, with its sacred pools, its thick forests, its pylons and divisions and, above all its Solar Boat that garantees the safe crossing into that difficult region, in the company of the gods, who grant the grace of such safety in crossing the perilous ocean that leads into the netherword, that of sunken Paradise (Atlantis).
These are all hollow earth references.
If Egypt adopted it's belief in a netherworld paradise from Atlanteans, how can Atlantis be that paradise? Everything Arysio refers to is indicative of a lost paradise, beneath the land or sea in existence before Atlanis sank. I wouldn't want my spirit to return to an obliterated ruin beneath the waves upon death ans why would a 'solar boat' be required to travel on Duat if it was just a sunken island? There are too many inconsistencies to mention but he has, I believe, found traces of Mu in the East.
Jan, Not only Dick, these photographs are incredible, if only Colonel
Churchward could see this. Graham Hancock was taken scuba diving in these
ruins and it, and other similar underwater structures are the subject of his
new book, due in November. These look man-made steps and the size of the
cyclopean stones are on a par with Baalbek as well as some Mesoamerican
sites.
What more proof is required to make them admit, advanced civilizations
flourished in antiquity? Hazel.
JanJM....
Thanks. I do like it! Had already seen the pics on other sites earlier (as all of you have too) But this is the FIRST time I've ever read anybody referring to Churchward and MU on the internet! Amazing. I could locate no home page or name on the page. Any idea who prepared it?
BUT, the writer, though partially informed, clearly has NOT studied Churchward's books (especially his final two science oriented books "Cosmic Forces of MU" books one and two).
MU's and Atlantis' destruction did not come about ONLY from earthquakes. Earthquakes were just PART of what Churchward described. The great (formerly "isolated") gas pocket chambers holding up the surfaces of both countries, were penetrated by forging, deep gas belt "tunnels," injecting new volumes of volcanic gases, OVER-compressing the chambers.
Overcompressed, the chamber "roofs" (and the surfaces above) violently shook, rose and fell repeatedly. At weak points in the surface rocks, the gases forced upwards. Volcanic cones rose and opened on several sides of the underlying chambers, emptying their volumes of volatile gases into the atmosphere. Mixing with oxygen, the gases erupted into flames as they rose. Parts of both countries were shaken by earthquakes while suffocated and engulfed with fire from the emptying gases.
As the last of the supporting gases escaped from the chambers, the chamber "roofs" dropped, collapsed to the "floors" of the emptied gas chambers, carrying with them everything that was once on the surface. In a day and night (or was it hours?), at separated times, both Atlantis and MU and most of their people, were destroyed by earthquakes, fire and water.
The other significant fault I find with the writer's (otherwise fine analysis), is his accepting the opinions of some Japanese researchers who think MU (if it is part of MU they are examining) was drowned and submerged by the rising waters of the oceans from glacial melt as the last ICE AGE ended. Neither the web page writer nor the Japanese he reports seem aware of one of the MAJOR contentions of Churchward; that there never was an ice age. It is an absurd myth. If Churchward was correct, MU (and Atlantis) were not submerged by glacial "melt." See the URL below....
This following old URL of an email I sent to Jeff Rense last year is still "live" in Rense's website archives: "The absurdity of the mythical ice age." If interested, take a look.... http://www.sightings.com/general3/myth.htm
A "pole shift," not an ice age. In it I related SOME of Churchward's "proofs" (but not all. Can't include everything in a short Rense email) that the supposed thousands of years in duration last ICE AGE (covering much of the northern hemisphere with giant, thick, MOVING glaciers - yet strangely ABSENT in Asia on the SAME parallels) was a myth. A mythical ice age. That it was INSTEAD a readjusting sudden LURCH of the north pole back toward mean (and the entire globe's land surfaces with it), after being tipped toward the Sun (pulled) beyond mean by the Sun's magnetic forces for an undetermined period of time. The earth's SURFACE lurched away from the Sun, but the "looser" ocean waters temporarily continued in the former direction, earth's surface moving UNDER the waters in the new direction. In actuality the ocean waters didn't pour OVER the land. Earth's surface moved UNDER the oceans.
But it was the SAME result for everyone drowned by the great waves! The North Pacific waters (WITHOUT ice) "spilled" northward over much of Eastern Asia (and the Uighur Empire in the Gobi), joined the waters of the Arctic ocean, picking up masses of loose rock and most of the ICE that had collected around the North polar region for thousands of prior years. The waves carrying rocks and ice then continued SOUTH down over Canada (sweeping the topsoil to the bedrock), much of the upper and middle United States (especially toward the east coast) and the western parts of northern Europe. The south moving ice and rocks carried in the waves ground to a pulp all vegetation, animals and human beings in their path. A CATACLYSMIC event of DAYS, not an ice age glacier covering the earth for thousands of years.
It was a readjusting LURCH that Churchward contended happened MANY times before in early earth's history. But such past "magnetic cataclysms" were of WATER only, drowning existing populations, not grinding them to pulp. By the time the last readjusting LURCH happened, earth's overall global temperature had gradually cooled from the former tropical conditions. The polar regions, once also warm and semi-tropical (as Donnelly and many today now agree), soon became very cold, accumulating volumes of ice and snow.
Following my email on the Rense site above is a guy named Chris, who was really bothered by my Churchward's claim the ice age was a myth. Worth reading. He posts some (possibly) valid exceptions (also makes a few lame excuses)... and carefully avoids attacking the MAJOR "proofs" offered by Churchward (through me). Judge for yourselves. You may agree with him.
Among the "evidence" I did not include, was my own discovery in my treasured 1948 Britannica. Writing about the ICE AGE, the Britannica science writer noted that at one time in the past (?), some geologists thought the evidence of ICE SCRATCHINGS on the stationery rocks could ALSO have been made by a TIDAL WAVE of water carrying ice that came from the north pole! But, he wrote, NO ONE could figure out how such a tidal wave could happen, so they decided to accept the idea the scratchings could have been made only by a MOVING GLACIER OF ICE! That appears to be how the ICE AGE and Glacial Theory came to be widely accepted by orthodox geologists. Amazing. Perhaps Churchward had not yet published his books. Certainly they were not read subsequently by ICE AGE theorists.
But aside from the preceding (important points, I think) it was refreshing to read SOMEONE new at least mentioning something about Churchward. Thanks again, JanJM .
First, thank you both for your kindly responses to my last message. This time, after reading some of your comments upon Atlantis and James Churchward, I would like to stick in my own two bits (or maybe ten bucks) worth about Atlantis and its location, if I may! I have endeavoured to read up just about everything I can find about the original whereabouts of Atlantis, and have finally come to the conclusion that it was exactly where Plato claimed it to be - just outside the Straits of Gibraltar (or the Pillars or Hercules).
Many learned scholars have attempted to make Plato out to be some kind of a liar and that his famous "Dialogues" of Critias and Timaeus, and those of Solon, his maternal ancestor, who heard it all directly from the Egyptian priests of Sais, were nothing more than fictitious inventions of his fertile imagination.
But why would he want to lie about such a thing? What could possibly be in it for him? It sounds to me suspiciously like that same sort of disbelief with which Herodotus was also treated when he reported all that interesting "inside info" about ancient Egypt. I just cannot buy it, as these men were reputable philosophers of their day, as well as historians. The same thing is still rife in our modern philosophical and intellectual society - anyone who reports anything which flies in the face of orthodox scientific "belief" - which is ALL it is - is regarded either as a liar, a crank, a gullible fool, or a loony!
Even we Hollow Planeteers are lumped into the same generic category as the Flat Earthers, along with the Mars Cydonian Anomaly crowd, by people who haven't even bothered to seriously read up anything about such possibilities! They just brand us all as purveyors of wild and unprovable hypotheses - as if the Scientific Establishment themselves have actually been down and checked out the Earth's nickel iron core, by way of their 3000-mile mantle of molten magma. Or that they have now unearthed all the sequential and intact skeletons of the thousands of evolving Missing Links purported to have existed between us and the ancestor of ourselves and the apes. Or that they have clear and conclusive evidence that there is nothing to be discovered upon Mars but rust and dust! This patronizing and patently dishonest attitude on the part of the Science Establishment really makes me choke with frustrated anger!
After all, when we speak of our own particular subject as a being "purely a theory", we mean what we say. But not so the august Science Establishment. Yet, when you get right down to it, most of their alleged "Scientific Knowledge" is itself founded largely upon pure theory, hypothesis and speculation, which has somehow miraculously evolved into "Factual Truth" through time-honoured tradition over the past decades, and docile acceptance as such by the lay-public of the world. No one actually knows how the Universe got started or how our own solar System came into being, but every new science-book we pick up - particularly those for young children - is crammed with totally unproven "Facts", all beautifully illustrated and printed in glorious four-color offset litho, accompanied by glibly worded text that would convince even Einstein, if he were to return tomorrow!
However, having got all that off my chest, let me come back to my point - which, I hasten to add, is all based on speculation and educated guesswork.
I personally believe that Plato meant just what he said, when he posited Atlantis as lying "beyond the Pillars of Hercules". I don't think he made it up at all, but he may have apdopted the custom of Greek writers and historians to choose his words and present them in the form of a "discourse", because that was the Greek scholarly way of stating such beliefs. Herodotos, as I've already pointed out, tended to use the same style of hyperbolic presentation in his discourses on history - especially that which he had learned from the Egyptians. I think it was presented in this circumlocative manner to save a lot of endless argument and heckling, and maybe modern scholars could learn much from this approach.
Well, now! As to why I believe Plato's story.
I believe that the site is as good as any other, and I also think that Charles Hapgood's theory about the disappearance of Mu in a series of cataclysmic sinkings, due to the collapsing of subterranean and suboceanic gas-caverns or "chambers" is a tenable one. Geologists cannot disprove their existence, any more than they can disprove that the Earth is hollow! However, I suspect that Plato might have been given just a touch of exaggeration as to the actual size of Atlantis, and that it was probably a lot smaller than the area he mentioned. After all, he hadn't seen it for himself, and it's my experience with such accounts that they tend to become embellished and added to as they are retold.
In my humble opinion, I believe the Canary Islands, plus Madiera and Funchal, the Azores ridge, and possibly the Azores Islands plateau, are all high peaks and elevated remnants of a sunken Atlantean land mass (or masses), which has long since been covered by the tidal sediment of the entrance to the Mediterranean Sea. I also believe that at the time of Atlantis' peak of civilization and commerce as one of the world's greatest seafaring nations, what today is the Mediterranean Sea, was then a huge fertile valley, upon the floor of which there were a good many cities and towns. Ancient legends and historic references claim that there are at least 250 such sites beneath the Mediterranean Sea, and this is now being revealed to be the case as more and more cities are being located by undersea archaeoloogists.
According to ancient accounts I have come across, and also those related by the oracular David Hatcher Childress, the Mediterranean Valley was once partially occupied by a breakaway group of Atlanteans known as the Osirians, who managed to build up a fairly sizeable Empire of their own. As far as I can gather, they still continued to follow the traditions of the Atlanteans in both their religion and their lifestyle, even after their original homeland had vanished, in two or three separate, devastating catastrophes beneath the Atlantic waves. However, their own situation, upon the extremely fertile valley floor, was far from secure, as eventually the Atlantic, most likely aided by the melting of polar ices, rose to a higher level, along with the world ocean in general, and rapidly began to break down the lowest portion of the Atlas Mountain chain.
There must have been a particular weak section between what are now Spain and Morocco - possibly a geological after-effect of the submergence of Atlantis, or the collapse of the subterranean gas-tubes or chambers in that area. For soon, the barrier of rock gave way, and the Atlantic was able to begin flowing into the great valley. I don't believe that the Mediterranean valley was as deep then as it is now, and has probably been scoured much deeper in some parts by the inflow of various rivers, as well as by the trenching action of the irrupting waters of the Atlantic. I also suspect that the Nile - which was then known as the Styx, and flowed out of a very deep canyon which ran back as far as the position of the present Aswan High Dam - emptied out into a deep lake between what is now Egypt and the rocky shelf of Crete, and that from there, some of its overflow water may have found its way around Sicily into another deep basin off the high cliffs of the modern French Cote D' Azure, to form a further deep lake. The Rhone would have been a major contributor to this lake. Much of this water would have been lost due to evaporation, thus maintaining a more or less steady balance in the two major lakes.
As the Atlantic waters relentlessly began to fill up the lush Mediterranean valley, one can imagine that the Osirians, along with other inhabitants of the valley, had to seek higher ground, which, according to all the Mediterannean bathymetric charts I've consulted, would most probably have been more easily accessible to the south, via Malta and up onto the Libyan plain of North Africa. And there the Osirians, the last repositors of Atlantean wisdom and technology, could have established a new dominion for some lengthy period of time - if they had not already done so, long beforehand!
In the meantime, the inflowing, deepening waters of the Atlantic had now reached the farther end of the Mediterranean valley and had begun to silt up the long ravine that had been carved out by the Styx-Nile, raising its floor steadily higher and higher as the sea-level rose in the great valley, sluicing stirred-up silt and soil into the once deep chasm. So that in the fullness of time, the Nile, instead of crashing over a giant waterfall into a deep canyon at Aswan, now flowed much more slowly at a far higher level, and was thus able to deposit its rich sediment along the length of what was to become the richly fertile river valley of Egypt.Thus the 1000-mile Styx canyon was rapidly filled up, and the valley of the Nile became even more fertile and green than the adjoining Libyan savannah grass and swamp lands.
I also believe that it was this wonderful change which attracted the Libyan descendants of the Osirians into this new land of Egypt, where they set about establishing yet another great empire, which was to become almost as powerful as the one from whence they had originally hailed - beyond the now famed Pillars of Hercules! Needless to say, they brought with them all the ancient wisdom of Atlantis, and part of it was their vast fund of technological knowledge and skill in the art of handling enormous works of stone construction by hi-tech means of which, today, we know nothing.
As to the great Pyramids of Giza. For all we know, they might already have built them many centuries before, high upon a great plateau of solid rock that formed the towering corner of the deep canyon of the Styx. It would have been an obvious and excellent site for the two great monoliths which represented their mighty god, Osiris, and his Queen, Isis. (The third, smaller one came much later.) It isn't hard to envisage the first brilliant rays of the rising sun gleaming upon those beautiful man-made, polished white and gold pyramids, at the break of the dawn, whilst the floor of the huge Mediterranean valley was still shrouded in darkness! This would have been a truly awe-inspiring sight for the faithful down below! And the massive, lion-headed Sphinx - that had been built by the real Ancients long before the Osirian Empire ever came into being, and was already a marvel and a mystery even then - would have gazed solemnly forth across the great Styx canyon to greet the rising of the sun.
From this purely hypothetical chain of deductions one can piece together something of the history of both ancient Egypt and what became of the Atlanteans and their famed culture. There is good reason to believe that, if they were, as legend claims, a nation of mighty builders and seafarers, they may well have carried much of their culture across to the Americas. This would account for the many otherwise inexplicable parallels between the building styles of the Egyptians and the precursors of the Mexican Olmecs, to whose original civilization no truly definitive date can be accurately ascribed. The brilliant building techniques of the Atlanteans must have been passed on, via their Osirian kin, to most of those fledgling nations which surrounded the Mediterranean valley, since we see echoes of it in the ziggaruts of ancient Sumer and in the balustraded and colonnaded temples and palaces of Crete and Greece, as well as the massive structures of Baalbek in ancient Lebanon, and even Persia.
As to the other sites ascribed to Atlantis. I have read Rand and Rose Flem-Ath's well thought-out book positing its Antarctic pre-poleshift origin. But there are too many objections to overcome for it to sound completely convincing. However, this is not to say that there couldn't very well have been another, even older, civilization there, so closely adjacent to one of the fabled polar portals to the inner world. So I feel that they might well have led us toward another as yet unheard-of culture, but one that may have been well known to the seafaring Atlanteans!
The Bimini and Bahamas region, north east of Cuba, is quite a good site for a province of Atlantis, and there are those intriguing submerged ruins which lend much substance to this idea, but the area is simply not large enough to meet the criteria of a continent-sized island such as Plato described (unless he meant America!), nor is it anywhere even close to the Pillars of Hercules. But again, since this site is close to what I believe is another major inner-earth "portal" centred on the Devil's Triangle,* I don't doubt that there was once a very ancient emergent civilization around that area, which vanished beneath the waves due to seabed subsidence in the same manner as Atlantis and Mu.
But regarding the rather far-fetched idea of an eastern Atlantis. I would suggest that this would have been much more likely to have been a major part of Churchward's famous and entirely credible Muvian Empire, and part of as different culture. so I won't waste any more time here on that proposal. I would suggest to those who have any doublts, that they cshould peruse a few bathymetric charts of the world's oceans! The major last remaining portion of the several linked continents of Mu is that of of Australasia. All that remains of the other elongated landmasses of Mu are the Pacific island chains, which are the tips of their volcanic peaks. I don't believe that Mu was ever one single massive continent.
I guess that just about covers the main thrust of my argument in favour of Plato's site being the right one for Atlantis, so I'll quietly roll up my swag and try to catch up with David Hatcher Childress! I only hope that this long-winded airing of my views hasn't bored the pants off you patient people! But I do hope it might stir up some further debate as we delve ever deeper in search of our inner-Earth origins!
*Oh,yes! And before I close, let me once again mention Matt and Kev Taylor's "The Land of No Horizon" as being an invaluable read for those seeking a new angle on the Hollow Earh theory. It has caused me to think a lot harder about several interesting avenues we've not yet explored in terms of intra-crustal "portals" and planetary gravitation!
Thanks for listening, folks, and my best regards to all.
Gerry, This didn't bore me one bit, your deductions sound fairly accurate to me, and like me, you believe Plato's version of events before anyone elses. Working from Plato's Dialogues, Ignatius Donnelly spent his life researching this subject and reached the same conclusion, but also felt Atlantis was synonimous with the Garden of Eden. How can you return there for the Afterlife if it is a ruin beneath the sea? Mu, may have been joined to Australia at some point, but many lands which were once fertile and green, before the flood, are now deserts (or covered in ice.) What bothers me, is how accademics and historians are prepared to quote Pliny or Herodotus on many subjects, but conveniently leave out parts of their works which, as you said, upset orthodox 'established facts.' But even more annoying is that while scholars bicker over it's whereabouts, they're missing the point, if an advanced Atlantean civilization existed in antiquity, all our history, as we are taught it...is false.
Gerry... I enjoyed reading your really interesting email to Hazel, me (and everybody). Excellent piece. Printed it off. Both my wife and I read it, but I have to go through it a second time; you put across a lot of thoughts to absorb. Your idea that the Mediterranean may have earlier(?) been dry land with lakes was new to me (though my wife said she remembers hearing something similar before). Does Childress ALSO think that? But I'm confused about the general "dates" you seem to assign to events, the Atlanteans, Egypt, etc.
My only valued source (aside from Donnelly, as with Hazel) about Atlantis' (AND indirectly, MU's) "connections" with the Mediterranean (& ancient Greece), Egypt, etc., is from Churchward. I'm including the following (a rather long excerpt) that he wrote about the Mediterranean AREA for you to look over. I found of special interest his statements that the ANCIENT Greek language was CARIAN, not Greek of today. Doesn't sound made up. This was the ancient Greek civilization (mentioned by the Egyptian priests) that at one time supposedly fought the Atlanteans when they became warlike. Churchward suggested that "modern" translators, not understanding the ancient CARIAN words still retained in the Greek language, have made some errors in translation, which he "corrected" in the piece below. Read the following and judge for yourself -and give us more of your comments. (Asumming you've never read the following material before!)
Dick Fojut
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CH 14 ASIA MINOR AND VICINITY
from James Churchward's "Cosmic Forces of MU" Book 2
PRE-HISTORIC CIVILIZATIONS DESTROYED BY GAS BELTS
NEXT to the last great Magnetic Cataclysm, the earth's most terrible tragedies have been the outcome of forging gas belts. Whole countries and civilizations have been wiped out, one after the other, over and over again. The monuments of these vast tragedies we find all over the world.
One of the areas that suffered severely was that around the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea. Here no less than five belts go in stretches under the sea, which means that there were at least five great cataclysmic waves formed which rolled in over the adjacent country or countries and wiped out the population. That such waves are physically attested to today is confirmed by the three civilizations showing on Capital Hill, Smyrna, Asia Minor. As these were wiped out before the mountains were raised, it shows that they are 20,000 years or more old, and that they date back to the Tertiary Era. The character of the strata between them determines that their destruction was due to Cataclysms.
Ancient Greek and Egyptian records show that Asia Minor, Greece and Tyrrhenia were settled thousands of years before Lower Egypt. In fact, the first settlement in Egypt on the Nile was an accident. Thoth, fleeing from the wrath of King Chronos of Atlantis, went, so to speak, beyond civilization; that is, he went to a country that was unoccupied, so that he could not be found and overtaken. He and his companions formed the first settlement on the Nile Delta, at Sais. I have mentioned Greek records. The Greeks themselves had no records of their own. What they did have were all destroyed. Their knowledge of the past came through their philosophers, who visited Egypt, became initiated into the Egyptian Sacred Mysteries and, from the Egyptian Temple records related to them by the priest-historians, brought back to Greece what they had learnt in Egypt. The cause of the Greeks losing all of their ancient records will hereafter be shown.
As an example, I will quote Plato's Timaeus Critias, which is a recount of the Greek philosopher, Solon, and the Egyptian priest-historian, Souchis, at Sais. " 'Oh, Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are but children and there never is an old man who is a Hellene.' Solon hearing this said, 'What do you mean?' 'I mean to say,' he replied, 'that in mind you are all young. There is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition nor any science which is hoary with age, and I will tell you the reason of this. There have been and will be again many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes, the greatest have been brought about by fire and water. Whatever happened either in your country or ours or in any other region of which we are informed .................., all this has been written down, and is preserved in our temples. Whereas you and other nations provided yourselves with destructible records at the time. And then the Cataclysm sent by Heaven descends like a pestilence, leaving only a few of you who have no education or knowledge and then you have to begin all over again as children, commencing to learn. You know nothing of what happened in ancient times either among us or among yourselves. As for these Geneologies of yours which you have recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than tales of children: for, in the first place you know of one deluge only - whereas there have been a number of them.'
"'And in the next place you do not know that there dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived on the earth. You and all your people are now only a remnant. And this is not known to you because for many generations the survivors of that destruction kept no records.'
"'Your ancient Athens was built 1,000 years before our City of Sais. Receiving from the Motherland and Hephaestus the forefathers of your race.' (Sais was the first city built in Egypt, about 14,000 B. C.)
"'Afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and cataclysms and in a single day all of your warlike men sank in a body, into the earth.' "
The greater part of these quotations are my own translations, for I have yet to find a single one of the old Greek works correctly translated into English. The reason is easy to understand. During the Archonship of Euclides*, both the Greek language and the Greek alphabet were revised. Up to that time Carian was the foundation and principal part of their language, for it was their mother tongue. The Carian language is once removed from that of the motherland. Carian was the tongue they brought with themselves when they first came to Asia Minor. Then they used the Hieratic Alphabet of the motherland, but when the revision took place they only retained seven of the original characters. All others were either absolutely new, or old ones changed and modified.
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*(Dick Fojut interjecting here... Remarkably, the Greek letters of the revised Euclides Greek Alphabet, letter-by-letter describes the destruction of MU and its sinking to the bottom of the ocean and states "MU" by name as well!. I put it on the list earlier. Here it is again. See bottom.)
------------------------------
The thousands of years that had elapsed since they first came to Asia Minor had brought about so many of the inevitable changes which distance and isolation foster, that the foregoing revision became a necessity.
While the various revisions were officially accomplished, the Philosophers could not forget their Carian. They retained and used many Carian words in their writings, so that one who knows the old Carian finds the works of the old philosophers permeated with Carian words. The full meaning of these words have not been known to modern translators into English, consequently they have been at a great disadvantage. As an example, I will take the works of the great Greek scholar, B. Jowett, of Oxford. While his Greek translations are the most accurate I have read, yet he has here and there a trip-up. What I have quoted from the Critias, Jowett translates: "And this was not known to you because for many generations the survivors of that destruction made no sign." The word that sign is taken from actually goes back to the vocabulary of the motherland; it was continued with all its various meanings by the Carians or Karras. The word conveyed the meanings of write, sign, record, and keep tabs, dependent on how used. In this case the correct translation is record. The word signature finds its root in this word of the motherland, also to sign and to inscribe. Another example is: "Receiving from the earth-the seed of your race." The origin of this comes out of the ancient symbol, (Horizontal Rectangle not shown), the letter M of the Hieratic Alphabet of the motherland. Mayax and Egypt pronounced Moo also Ma. It means: mother, earth, and land; by extension, country; a proper modern language translation of this is "Your forefathers came from the motherland direct." Here the word Moo, by extension or doubling or conjoining its meanings, becomes Mother-land.
All parts of the earth have suffered in the past from Cataclysms through gas belt forgings. There was the Motherland and Atlantis submerged with all thereon. Central America is known to have been overrun three times and most of the western parts of North America as well. Buried and submerged cities are constantly being found, grim monuments of the havoc and destruction caused by the gas belts.
Each of their lines throughout the world have been lines of calamity and destruction, loss of life and wiping out of civilizations.
Having made the bold statement that great civilizations existed around the eastern end of the Mediterranean 25,000 years ago, some of my readers may think I have unwittingly added a figure to my length of time, but let us calculate. The three civilizations shown on Capital Hill, Smyrna, existed before the mountains were raised and this phenomena is corroborated by Niven's Mexican Buried Cities, now at an altitude of 7,000 feet, and by Tiahuanaco in South America, at an altitude of 15,000 feet. All these are physical proofs. Two of them show by their coverings that cataclysms from the oceans destroyed them. The evidences continue, when we look at Schliemann's Ancient Troys, the Buried Cities of Crete, the Ruins of Baalbeck and the known submerged cities. The manner of the destruction of most of them is told in the Egyptian Temple Histories: namely earthquakes, volcanic fires and Cataclysms. But while these records tell us in what manner the destruction was caused, they do not so far tell us what caused the earthquakes and cataclysms. Other records do. It was the gases or fires of the underneath forging passageways to outlets, which I have termed gas belts. The Egyptians tell us that there was not one flood but many, and the Egyptian records are proved to be true by our finding today many of the cities thus destroyed.
-----------------
-----------------
Note: See the following, about my interjected reference in the above. This is the second time I've sent the material below to the list...
Evidentally, THE GREEK ALPHABET was designed to remind about the destruction of Mu....
Text below is from James Churchward's first book, "The Lost Continent of Mu" Starting on Page 102...
GREECE.-
A few references to the Motherland of Man (Mu) are to be found among the writings of the old Greek philosophers.
In the year 403 B.C., during the archonship of Euclid, the Greek grammarians rearranged the Athenian alphabet in its present form. The Greek alphabet today is composed of Maya vocables forming an epic that relates the destruction of Mu. The translation of the Greek alphabet is as follows...
...The alphabet of the Greeks is an epic composed of Cara-Maya vocables, and is a commemorative memorial to their forefathers who lost their lives at the destruction of Mu.
In Plato's Timeus Critias we find this reference to the lost continent: "The Land of Mu had ten peoples."
Proclus wrote: "The Lands of the 'West had ten peoples."
Here we find two of the old Greek philosophers writing about the Motherland of Man. One uses its hieratical name, the other its geographical name, but both assert that there were ten separate peoples.
THE REVISED GREEK ALPHABET...
Greek Cara Maya. ENGLISH MEANINGS.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Alpha Al, HEAVY; paa, BREAK; ha, WATER
Beta Be, WALK; ta, WHERE, PLACE, PLAIN, GROUND
Gamma Kam, RECEIVE; ma, MOTHER, EARTH
Delta Tel, DEEP, BOTTOM; ta, WHERE, ETC.
Epsilon Ep, OBSTRUCT; zil, MAKE EDGES;
onom, WHIRLWIND
Zeta Ze, STRIKE; ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC.
Eta Et, WITH; ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC.
Theta Thetheha, EXTEND; ha, WATER
Iota Io, ALL THAT WHICH LIVES AND MOVES;
ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC. Kappa Ka, SEDIMENT, OBSTRUCTION;
paa, BREAK, OBSTRUCT
Lambda Lam, SUBMERGE; be, GO, WALK;
ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC. Mu Mu, MU
Ni Ni, POINT, SUMMIT, PEAK
Xi Xi, TO RISE, TO APPEAR OVER
Omikron Om, WHIRL; ik, WIND; le, PLACE; on, CIRCULAR
Pi Pi, TO PLACE LITTLE BY LITTLE
Rho La, UNTIL; ho, COME
Sigma Zi, COLD; ik, WIND; ma, EARTH, MOTHER, ETC.
Tau Ta, WHERE; u, BOTTOM, VALLEY, ABYSS, ETC.
Upsilon U, ABYSS, ETC.; pa, TANK; zi, COLD; le, PLACE;
on, CIRCULAR
Phi Pe, COME, ETC.; hi, MUD, CLAY
Chi Chi, MOUTH OPENING
Psi Pe, COME, OUT, ETC.; zi, VAPOR
Omega O, THERE; mec, WHIRL; ka, SEDIMENTS
---------------------------------------------
Greek Cara Maya. FREE READING
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Al-paa-ha Heavily break the waters Beta Be-ta extending over the plains
Gamma Kam-ma they cover the lands
Delta Tel-ta in low places, where
Epsilon Ep-zil-on-om there are obstructions, shores
form and whirlpools
Zeta Ze-ta strike the earth
Eta Et-ha with water.
Theta Thetheha-ha The waters spread Iota Io-ta on all that lives and moves
Kappa Ka-paa obstructions give way and
Lambda Lam-be-ta submerged is the land of
Mu Mu Mu.
Ni Ni Peaks only
Xi Xi appear above the waters
Omikron Om-ik-le-on whirlwinds blow around
Pi Pi and little by little
Rho La-ho until there comes Sigma Zi-ik-ma cold air. Before
Tau Ta-u where valleys existed, are
Upsilon U-pa-zi-le-on now abysses, cold depths. In
circular places
Phi Pe-hi mud formed.
Chi Chi A mouth
Psi Pe-zi opens, vapors
Omega O-mec-ka come forth and volcanic
-----------------------------------------------
(P. 103) STRAIGHT READING -- Heavily break the waters over the plains. They cover the low places, Where there are obstructions shores form. The earth is struck with water; the waters spread on all that lives and moves, the foundations give way and submerged is the land of Mu. The peaks only appear above the water, whirlwinds blow around until gradually comes cold air. Before where existed valleys are great depths, cold tanks. A mouth opens, out of which vapors pour forth and volcanic sediments.
-----------------------------------------------
[allplanets-hollow] Re: Atlantis - The Lost ContinentDick, Thanks for Churchward's translations and account of Mu's destruction, I will save it for future reference, the only thing I could add is, the underlying factor which triggers these succesive catastrophes, I believe, is the cyclical passing of a comet whose gravitational pull reverses the poles.
"In the annals of ancient Etruria, according to Varro, were records of seven elapsed ages. Censorinus, a compiler of Varro wrote; There is a period called the 'supreme year' by Aristotle, at the end of which, the sun, moon, and all the planets return to their original position. This 'supreme year' (3,600 years) has a great winter and a great summer. The world seems to be inundated and burned alternately in each of these epochs." Heraclitus taught that the world is destroyed in conflagration cycles and Aristarchus of Samos taught that the earth undergoes two destructions--of combustion and deluge. Do you suppose these learned philosophers were mistaken? Using the 3,600 year cycle, I would date the final destruction of Atlantis around 9,000BC, just as Plato said. Hazel
Dick Fojut
--------------------------------
CH 14 ASIA MINOR AND VICINITY
from James Churchward's "Cosmic Forces of MU" Book 2
PRE-HISTORIC CIVILIZATIONS DESTROYED BY GAS BELTS
NEXT to the last great Magnetic Cataclysm, the earth's most terrible tragedies have been the outcome of forging gas belts. Whole countries and civilizations have been wiped out, one after the other, over and over again. The monuments of these vast tragedies we find all over the world.
One of the areas that suffered severely was that around the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea. Here no less than five belts go in stretches under the sea, which means that there were at least five great cataclysmic waves formed which rolled in over the adjacent country or countries and wiped out the population. That such waves are physically attested to today is confirmed by the three civilizations showing on Capital Hill, Smyrna, Asia Minor. As these were wiped out before the mountains were raised, it shows that they are 20,000 years or more old, and that they date back to the Tertiary Era. The character of the strata between them determines that their destruction was due to Cataclysms.
Ancient Greek and Egyptian records show that Asia Minor, Greece and Tyrrhenia were settled thousands of years before Lower Egypt. In fact, the first settlement in Egypt on the Nile was an accident. Thoth, fleeing from the wrath of King Chronos of Atlantis, went, so to speak, beyond civilization; that is, he went to a country that was unoccupied, so that he could not be found and overtaken. He and his companions formed the first settlement on the Nile Delta, at Sais. I have mentioned Greek records. The Greeks themselves had no records of their own. What they did have were all destroyed. Their knowledge of the past came through their philosophers, who visited Egypt, became initiated into the Egyptian Sacred Mysteries and, from the Egyptian Temple records related to them by the priest-historians, brought back to Greece what they had learnt in Egypt. The cause of the Greeks losing all of their ancient records will hereafter be shown.
As an example, I will quote Plato's Timaeus Critias, which is a recount of the Greek philosopher, Solon, and the Egyptian priest-historian, Souchis, at Sais. " 'Oh, Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are but children and there never is an old man who is a Hellene.' Solon hearing this said, 'What do you mean?' 'I mean to say,' he replied, 'that in mind you are all young. There is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition nor any science which is hoary with age, and I will tell you the reason of this. There have been and will be again many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes, the greatest have been brought about by fire and water. Whatever happened either in your country or ours or in any other region of which we are informed .................., all this has been written down, and is preserved in our temples. Whereas you and other nations provided yourselves with destructible records at the time. And then the Cataclysm sent by Heaven descends like a pestilence, leaving only a few of you who have no education or knowledge and then you have to begin all over again as children, commencing to learn. You know nothing of what happened in ancient times either among us or among yourselves. As for these Geneologies of yours which you have recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than tales of children: for, in the first place you know of one deluge only - whereas there have been a number of them.'
"'And in the next place you do not know that there dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived on the earth. You and all your people are now only a remnant. And this is not known to you because for many generations the survivors of that destruction kept no records.'
"'Your ancient Athens was built 1,000 years before our City of Sais. Receiving from the Motherland and Hephaestus the forefathers of your race.' (Sais was the first city built in Egypt, about 14,000 B. C.)
"'Afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and cataclysms and in a single day all of your warlike men sank in a body, into the earth.' "
The greater part of these quotations are my own translations, for I have yet to find a single one of the old Greek works correctly translated into English. The reason is easy to understand. During the Archonship of Euclides*, both the Greek language and the Greek alphabet were revised. Up to that time Carian was the foundation and principal part of their language, for it was their mother tongue. The Carian language is once removed from that of the motherland. Carian was the tongue they brought with themselves when they first came to Asia Minor. Then they used the Hieratic Alphabet of the motherland, but when the revision took place they only retained seven of the original characters. All others were either absolutely new, or old ones changed and modified.
------------------------------
*(Dick Fojut interjecting here... Remarkably, the Greek letters of the revised Euclides Greek Alphabet, letter-by-letter describes the destruction of MU and its sinking to the bottom of the ocean and states "MU" by name as well!. I put it on the list earlier. Here it is again. See bottom.)
------------------------------
The thousands of years that had elapsed since they first came to Asia Minor had brought about so many of the inevitable changes which distance and isolation foster, that the foregoing revision became a necessity.
While the various revisions were officially accomplished, the Philosophers could not forget their Carian. They retained and used many Carian words in their writings, so that one who knows the old Carian finds the works of the old philosophers permeated with Carian words. The full meaning of these words have not been known to modern translators into English, consequently they have been at a great disadvantage. As an example, I will take the works of the great Greek scholar, B. Jowett, of Oxford. While his Greek translations are the most accurate I have read, yet he has here and there a trip-up. What I have quoted from the Critias, Jowett translates: "And this was not known to you because for many generations the survivors of that destruction made no sign." The word that sign is taken from actually goes back to the vocabulary of the motherland; it was continued with all its various meanings by the Carians or Karras. The word conveyed the meanings of write, sign, record, and keep tabs, dependent on how used. In this case the correct translation is record. The word signature finds its root in this word of the motherland, also to sign and to inscribe. Another example is: "Receiving from the earth-the seed of your race." The origin of this comes out of the ancient symbol, (Horizontal Rectangle not shown), the letter M of the Hieratic Alphabet of the motherland. Mayax and Egypt pronounced Moo also Ma. It means: mother, earth, and land; by extension, country; a proper modern language translation of this is "Your forefathers came from the motherland direct." Here the word Moo, by extension or doubling or conjoining its meanings, becomes Mother-land.
All parts of the earth have suffered in the past from Cataclysms through gas belt forgings. There was the Motherland and Atlantis submerged with all thereon. Central America is known to have been overrun three times and most of the western parts of North America as well. Buried and submerged cities are constantly being found, grim monuments of the havoc and destruction caused by the gas belts.
Each of their lines throughout the world have been lines of calamity and destruction, loss of life and wiping out of civilizations.
Having made the bold statement that great civilizations existed around the eastern end of the Mediterranean 25,000 years ago, some of my readers may think I have unwittingly added a figure to my length of time, but let us calculate. The three civilizations shown on Capital Hill, Smyrna, existed before the mountains were raised and this phenomena is corroborated by Niven's Mexican Buried Cities, now at an altitude of 7,000 feet, and by Tiahuanaco in South America, at an altitude of 15,000 feet. All these are physical proofs. Two of them show by their coverings that cataclysms from the oceans destroyed them. The evidences continue, when we look at Schliemann's Ancient Troys, the Buried Cities of Crete, the Ruins of Baalbeck and the known submerged cities. The manner of the destruction of most of them is told in the Egyptian Temple Histories: namely earthquakes, volcanic fires and Cataclysms. But while these records tell us in what manner the destruction was caused, they do not so far tell us what caused the earthquakes and cataclysms. Other records do. It was the gases or fires of the underneath forging passageways to outlets, which I have termed gas belts. The Egyptians tell us that there was not one flood but many, and the Egyptian records are proved to be true by our finding today many of the cities thus destroyed.
-----------------
-----------------
Note: See the following, about my interjected reference in the above. This is the second time I've sent the material below to the list...
Evidentally, THE GREEK ALPHABET was designed to remind about the destruction of Mu....
Text below is from James Churchward's first book, "The Lost Continent of Mu" Starting on Page 102...
GREECE.-
A few references to the Motherland of Man (Mu) are to be found among the writings of the old Greek philosophers.
In the year 403 B.C., during the archonship of Euclid, the Greek grammarians rearranged the Athenian alphabet in its present form. The Greek alphabet today is composed of Maya vocables forming an epic that relates the destruction of Mu. The translation of the Greek alphabet is as follows...
...The alphabet of the Greeks is an epic composed of Cara-Maya vocables, and is a commemorative memorial to their forefathers who lost their lives at the destruction of Mu.
In Plato's Timeus Critias we find this reference to the lost continent: "The Land of Mu had ten peoples."
Proclus wrote: "The Lands of the 'West had ten peoples."
Here we find two of the old Greek philosophers writing about the Motherland of Man. One uses its hieratical name, the other its geographical name, but both assert that there were ten separate peoples.
THE REVISED GREEK ALPHABET...
Greek Cara Maya. ENGLISH MEANINGS.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Alpha Al, HEAVY; paa, BREAK; ha, WATER
Beta Be, WALK; ta, WHERE, PLACE, PLAIN, GROUND
Gamma Kam, RECEIVE; ma, MOTHER, EARTH
Delta Tel, DEEP, BOTTOM; ta, WHERE, ETC.
Epsilon Ep, OBSTRUCT; zil, MAKE EDGES;
onom, WHIRLWIND
Zeta Ze, STRIKE; ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC.
Eta Et, WITH; ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC.
Theta Thetheha, EXTEND; ha, WATER
Iota Io, ALL THAT WHICH LIVES AND MOVES;
ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC.
Kappa Ka, SEDIMENT, OBSTRUCTION;
paa, BREAK, OBSTRUCT
Lambda Lam, SUBMERGE; be, GO, WALK;
ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC.
Mu Mu, MU
Ni Ni, POINT, SUMMIT, PEAK
Xi Xi, TO RISE, TO APPEAR OVER
Omikron Om, WHIRL; ik, WIND; le, PLACE; on, CIRCULAR
Pi Pi, TO PLACE LITTLE BY LITTLE
Rho La, UNTIL; ho, COME
Sigma Zi, COLD; ik, WIND; ma, EARTH, MOTHER, ETC.
Tau Ta, WHERE; u, BOTTOM, VALLEY, ABYSS, ETC.
Upsilon U, ABYSS, ETC.; pa, TANK; zi, COLD; le, PLACE;
on, CIRCULAR
Phi Pe, COME, ETC.; hi, MUD, CLAY
Chi Chi, MOUTH OPENING
Psi Pe, COME, OUT, ETC.; zi, VAPOR
Omega O, THERE; mec, WHIRL; ka, SEDIMENTS
---------------------------------------------
Greek Cara Maya. FREE READING
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Al-paa-ha Heavily break the waters
Beta Be-ta extending over the plains
Gamma Kam-ma they cover the lands
Delta Tel-ta in low places, where
Epsilon Ep-zil-on-om there are obstructions, shores
form and whirlpools
Zeta Ze-ta strike the earth
Eta Et-ha with water.
Theta Thetheha-ha The waters spread
Iota Io-ta on all that lives and moves
Kappa Ka-paa obstructions give way and
Lambda Lam-be-ta submerged is the land of
Mu Mu Mu.
Ni Ni Peaks only
Xi Xi appear above the waters
Omikron Om-ik-le-on whirlwinds blow around
Pi Pi and little by little
Rho La-ho until there comes
Sigma Zi-ik-ma cold air. Before
Tau Ta-u where valleys existed, are
Upsilon U-pa-zi-le-on now abysses, cold depths. In
circular places
Phi Pe-hi mud formed.
Chi Chi A mouth
Psi Pe-zi opens, vapors
Omega O-mec-ka come forth and volcanic
-----------------------------------------------
(P. 103) STRAIGHT READING -- Heavily break the waters over the plains. They cover the low places, Where there are obstructions shores form. The earth is struck with water; the waters spread on all that lives and moves, the foundations give way and submerged is the land of Mu. The peaks only appear above the water, whirlwinds blow around until gradually comes cold air. Before where existed valleys are great depths, cold tanks. A mouth opens, out of which vapors pour forth and volcanic sediments.
---------------------------
Hazel (from Dick).... You come up with fascinating stuff I've never read! Judging by the dates you note, that comet may well have played a role. Seems more than coincidence. Other outside factors, such as the comet you mention above, and possibly more, could have TRIGGERED a change in the geological CONDITION existing under Atlantis.
Churchward presented the CONDITION that probably underlay both Atlantis and MU (and other areas); a series of giant gas "pockets' upholding their surfaces above water level. For long periods of "history" these gas chambers remained isolated (no fissures or cracks entering) from any additional volcanic gases that were regularly being emptied out of the crust from below by earth's centrifugal force.
As you have read, he attributed the BLOWOUTS (the emptying) of these supporting gas chambers to the "forging" of deeper, lateral "gas belts," developed by the centrifugal force (searching for weak spots in the rock layers above) as the upper crust had became too compacted and resistant to easily penetrate vertically as in prior periods. These irregular lines of connected gas pockets, forging laterally, he claimed, were a late development in earth's geology... beginning around only 20,000 years back. They reached their "zenith" probably between 15,000 and 10,000 years past. (Velikovski, in his first book, said a small range in western America was uplifted only 4,000 years back).
This should be easy for any reader to picture.... Until they could find a distant weak spot or vertical fissure in the rock layers above to then push through, raise a cone and empty into the atmosphere, the volcanic gases fed into these huge subterranean belts under enormous pressure from earth's centrifugal force, swelled and raised the belt "roofs" - and uplifted miles thick of rocks above the belts. On the surface, these "ripples" of raised rock slabs sometimes stretched for thousands of miles in length. They are our "mountain ranges." The rocks were uplifted, but not enough to be cracked open to form an emptying volcanic cone. When a weak spot was eventually penetrated and the belt gases emptied, further lateral mountain raising ceased - temporarily. That volcano (unless completely plugged later) became one of that belt's future "escape valves."
Churchward plotted two roughly parallel major "central" gas belts that stretched west to east under the Pacific, under central America, continuing eastward under the Atlantic. To one of both of these belts he assigned "blame" for opening fissures into the formerly isolated gas chambers under MU and Atlantic, over-compressing them until the the shaken chamber roofs cracked open in fiery volcanos, emptied their gases and the roofs collapsed to the chamber floors.
--------------------------
Aside to Gerry: Churchward thought MU was 3 lands, upheld by 3 great wide gas chambers, the lands separated by narrow stretches of water, (and judging by his maps) with a number of smaller pockets nearby and others also just UNDER the upper chambers. Right or wrong, he pictured Atlantis, whether a continent like MU or just a LARGE island, as probably being held up by one large chamber of limited depth but having deeper chambers under it. This seems to make some sense, because parts of Atlantis (if Churchward and others are correct) seems to have first gone down to just under the surface, saturating the area's waters with mud and seaweed for an extended time that ships reportedly had difficulty moving through to get to the "lands beyond." The later blowouts of the gases in the deeper pockets, apparently sent Atlantis finally crashing to its final depth, and cleared up the ocean waters.
--------------------------
Back to Hazel.... If Churchward was right about the CONDITION then existing; MU's and Atlantis' isolated gas chambers being threatened by penetration from deeper forging gas belts, other factors may have TRIGGERED the gas belts to open fissures to the chambers. That comet may have. Or recall about Atlantis, Cayce said that misuse (or overuse?) of the giant power producing "CRYSTALS," caused earthquakes and the eventual collapse of Atlantis' surface.
The problem I have with MU and a 3,600 years comet, is that MU supposedly was blown out BEFORE Atlantis, no more than 1,000 years earlier (or probably less), also penetrated by one of those developing west to east gas belts, not 3,600 years earlier. But we can't dismiss multiple "triggers" that could affect dangerous geological CONDITIONS, even if a comet did not affect MU.
I also have trouble with that business of any comet "reversing" (or affecting) the poles. Any "lurch" of the poles in the past 15,000 to 20,000 years would SPILL ocean waters (and polar waters WITH ice) over land areas, causing a GLOBAL cataclysm. Churchward said the LAST one did just that (mistakenly called the "ice age") BEFORE 15,000 years ago and probably closer to 17,000 years back. Have there been SIMILAR polar "lurches" causing GLOBAL cataclysms since then, 3,600 years ago, 7,200 years ago?
If he is right that mountain ranges were uplifted by gas belts forging beneath, mostly between only 15,000 to 10,000 years years ago, most land surfaces were priorly just above water surface. Developing gas belts under oceans, or rises and collapses of ocean bed gas chambers, would raise the waters above, frequently sending tidal wave floods over nearby water level lands, drowning everyone. Multiple causes of lesser cataclysms from spilled ocean waters. Could a passing comet have "triggered" such (non-global) cataclysms too? Maybe. - Dick
P.S. List members. I also have problems with many scientists claiming the ocean levels DEEPENED when the glaciers melted at the end of the mythical "ice age." WHY? Because if the oceans deepened (around the time Atlantis sank, incidentally) why did so many LOW LYING land areas around the world EMERGE, especially the coast line of Florida? Why did the shallow St. Lawrence Valley inland sea, and the Mississippi Valley Inland Sea, EMPTY? And the Amazon Valley inland sea, (Churchward claims existed) also empty? If the ocean levels ROSE 300 feet (or much more) from melting glaciers, as claimed, why wouldn't ALL former low lying lands be submerged... and inland seas still exist in the middle of the United States? Why weren't the British Isles submerged. Something just doesn't make sense on this. - Dick
Re: [allplanets-hollow] Re: Atlantis - The Lost ContinDick, Now I'm not a geologist, but I understand how these "gas pockets" could cause lands to rise and fall and the tectonic plates force the earth's crust and mountains to recycle. But the magnetic pull from a close passing comet, according to my source, would "grip the earth's slip while lava 100 miles underneath the slip is still revolving. The arrest is released as it passes by in a couple of days and the north and south pole shift their position. There has been 180 pole shifts already recorded." (This is not necessarily a reversal.) The last time this occured, it drew the magma from Santorini, which blew it's top. The seas, according to Velikovsky, were pulled from the ocean floor (and the Red Sea?) during one such deluge, he thought Venus was the comet. It would also explain how the Maya were able to accurately predict these major earth changes and ages, by the recurring elliptical orbit of this 'forgotten' celestial body which everyone thinks is Nibiru. But "multiple triggers" sounds more plausible, my mind remains open on the subject. There's also the possibility that a 'World War' was accountable for the calamity or the interference of 'evil' Atlanteans meddling with 'forbidden science' (crystal power.) All theories are worth consideration. Hazel
---------------------------
Hazel (from Dick).... You come up with fascinating stuff I've never read! Judging by the dates you note, that comet may well have played a role. Seems more than coincidence. Other outside factors, such as the comet you mention above, and possibly more, could have TRIGGERED a change in the geological CONDITION existing under Atlantis.
Churchward presented the CONDITION that probably underlay both Atlantis and MU (and other areas); a series of giant gas "pockets' upholding their surfaces above water level. For long periods of "history" these gas chambers remained isolated (no fissures or cracks entering) from any additional volcanic gases that were regularly being emptied out of the crust from below by earth's centrifugal force.
As you have read, he attributed the BLOWOUTS (the emptying) of these supporting gas chambers to the "forging" of deeper, lateral "gas belts," developed by the centrifugal force (searching for weak spots in the rock layers above) as the upper crust had became too compacted and resistant to easily penetrate vertically as in prior periods. These irregular lines of connected gas pockets, forging laterally, he claimed, were a late development in earth's geology... beginning around only 20,000 years back. They reached their "zenith" probably between 15,000 and 10,000 years past. (Velikovski, in his first book, said a small range in western America was uplifted only 4,000 years back).
This should be easy for any reader to picture.... Until they could find a distant weak spot or vertical fissure in the rock layers above to then push through, raise a cone and empty into the atmosphere, the volcanic gases fed into these huge subterranean belts under enormous pressure from earth's centrifugal force, swelled and raised the belt "roofs" - and uplifted miles thick of rocks above the belts. On the surface, these "ripples" of raised rock slabs sometimes stretched for thousands of miles in length. They are our "mountain ranges." The rocks were uplifted, but not enough to be cracked open to form an emptying volcanic cone. When a weak spot was eventually penetrated and the belt gases emptied, further lateral mountain raising ceased - temporarily. That volcano (unless completely plugged later) became one of that belt's future "escape valves."
Churchward plotted two roughly parallel major "central" gas belts that stretched west to east under the Pacific, under central America, continuing eastward under the Atlantic. To one of both of these belts he assigned "blame" for opening fissures into the formerly isolated gas chambers under MU and Atlantic, over-compressing them until the the shaken chamber roofs cracked open in fiery volcanos, emptied their gases and the roofs collapsed to the chamber floors.
--------------------------
Aside to Gerry: Churchward thought MU was 3 lands, upheld by 3 great wide gas chambers, the lands separated by narrow stretches of water, (and judging by his maps) with a number of smaller pockets nearby and others also just UNDER the upper chambers. Right or wrong, he pictured Atlantis, whether a continent like MU or just a LARGE island, as probably being held up by one large chamber of limited depth but having deeper chambers under it. This seems to make some sense, because parts of Atlantis (if Churchward and others are correct) seems to have first gone down to just under the surface, saturating the area's waters with mud and seaweed for an extended time that ships reportedly had difficulty moving through to get to the "lands beyond." The later blowouts of the gases in the deeper pockets, apparently sent Atlantis finally crashing to its final depth, and cleared up the ocean waters.
--------------------------
Back to Hazel.... If Churchward was right about the CONDITION then existing; MU's and Atlantis' isolated gas chambers being threatened by penetration from deeper forging gas belts, other factors may have TRIGGERED the gas belts to open fissures to the chambers. That comet may have. Or recall about Atlantis, Cayce said that misuse (or overuse?) of the giant power producing "CRYSTALS," caused earthquakes and the eventual collapse of Atlantis' surface.
The problem I have with MU and a 3,600 years comet, is that MU supposedly was blown out BEFORE Atlantis, no more than 1,000 years earlier (or probably less), also penetrated by one of those developing west to east gas belts, not 3,600 years earlier. But we can't dismiss multiple "triggers" that could affect dangerous geological CONDITIONS, even if a comet did not affect MU.
I also have trouble with that business of any comet "reversing" (or affecting) the poles. Any "lurch" of the poles in the past 15,000 to 20,000 years would SPILL ocean waters (and polar waters WITH ice) over land areas, causing a GLOBAL cataclysm. Churchward said the LAST one did just that (mistakenly called the "ice age") BEFORE 15,000 years ago and probably closer to 17,000 years back. Have there been SIMILAR polar "lurches" causing GLOBAL cataclysms since then, 3,600 years ago, 7,200 years ago?
If he is right that mountain ranges were uplifted by gas belts forging beneath, mostly between only 15,000 to 10,000 years years ago, most land surfaces were priorly just above water surface. Developing gas belts under oceans, or rises and collapses of ocean bed gas chambers, would raise the waters above, frequently sending tidal wave floods over nearby water level lands, drowning everyone. Multiple causes of lesser cataclysms from spilled ocean waters. Could a passing comet have "triggered" such (non-global) cataclysms too? Maybe. - Dick
P.S. List members. I also have problems with many scientists claiming the ocean levels DEEPENED when the glaciers melted at the end of the mythical "ice age." WHY? Because if the oceans deepened (around the time Atlantis sank, incidentally) why did so many LOW LYING land areas around the world EMERGE, especially the coast line of Florida? Why did the shallow St. Lawrence Valley inland sea, and the Mississippi Valley Inland Sea, EMPTY? And the Amazon Valley inland sea, (Churchward claims existed) also empty? If the ocean levels ROSE 300 feet (or much more) from melting glaciers, as claimed, why wouldn't ALL former low lying lands be submerged... and inland seas still exist in the middle of the United States? Why weren't the British Isles submerged. Something just doesn't make sense on this. - Dick
Dick Fojut
--------------------------------
CH 14 ASIA MINOR AND VICINITY
from James Churchward's "Cosmic Forces of MU" Book 2
PRE-HISTORIC CIVILIZATIONS DESTROYED BY GAS BELTS
NEXT to the last great Magnetic Cataclysm, the earth's most terrible tragedies have been the outcome of forging gas belts. Whole countries and civilizations have been wiped out, one after the other, over and over again. The monuments of these vast tragedies we find all over the world.
One of the areas that suffered severely was that around the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea. Here no less than five belts go in stretches under the sea, which means that there were at least five great cataclysmic waves formed which rolled in over the adjacent country or countries and wiped out the population. That such waves are physically attested to today is confirmed by the three civilizations showing on Capital Hill, Smyrna, Asia Minor. As these were wiped out before the mountains were raised, it shows that they are 20,000 years or more old, and that they date back to the Tertiary Era. The character of the strata between them determines that their destruction was due to Cataclysms.
Ancient Greek and Egyptian records show that Asia Minor, Greece and Tyrrhenia were settled thousands of years before Lower Egypt. In fact, the first settlement in Egypt on the Nile was an accident. Thoth, fleeing from the wrath of King Chronos of Atlantis, went, so to speak, beyond civilization; that is, he went to a country that was unoccupied, so that he could not be found and overtaken. He and his companions formed the first settlement on the Nile Delta, at Sais. I have mentioned Greek records. The Greeks themselves had no records of their own. What they did have were all destroyed. Their knowledge of the past came through their philosophers, who visited Egypt, became initiated into the Egyptian Sacred Mysteries and, from the Egyptian Temple records related to them by the priest-historians, brought back to Greece what they had learnt in Egypt. The cause of the Greeks losing all of their ancient records will hereafter be shown.
As an example, I will quote Plato's Timaeus Critias, which is a recount of the Greek philosopher, Solon, and the Egyptian priest-historian, Souchis, at Sais. " 'Oh, Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are but children and there never is an old man who is a Hellene.' Solon hearing this said, 'What do you mean?' 'I mean to say,' he replied, 'that in mind you are all young. There is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition nor any science which is hoary with age, and I will tell you the reason of this. There have been and will be again many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes, the greatest have been brought about by fire and water. Whatever happened either in your country or ours or in any other region of which we are informed .................., all this has been written down, and is preserved in our temples. Whereas you and other nations provided yourselves with destructible records at the time. And then the Cataclysm sent by Heaven descends like a pestilence, leaving only a few of you who have no education or knowledge and then you have to begin all over again as children, commencing to learn. You know nothing of what happened in ancient times either among us or among yourselves. As for these Geneologies of yours which you have recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than tales of children: for, in the first place you know of one deluge only - whereas there have been a number of them.'
"'And in the next place you do not know that there dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived on the earth. You and all your people are now only a remnant. And this is not known to you because for many generations the survivors of that destruction kept no records.'
"'Your ancient Athens was built 1,000 years before our City of Sais. Receiving from the Motherland and Hephaestus the forefathers of your race.' (Sais was the first city built in Egypt, about 14,000 B. C.)
"'Afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and cataclysms and in a single day all of your warlike men sank in a body, into the earth.' "
The greater part of these quotations are my own translations, for I have yet to find a single one of the old Greek works correctly translated into English. The reason is easy to understand. During the Archonship of Euclides*, both the Greek language and the Greek alphabet were revised. Up to that time Carian was the foundation and principal part of their language, for it was their mother tongue. The Carian language is once removed from that of the motherland. Carian was the tongue they brought with themselves when they first came to Asia Minor. Then they used the Hieratic Alphabet of the motherland, but when the revision took place they only retained seven of the original characters. All others were either absolutely new, or old ones changed and modified.
------------------------------
*(Dick Fojut interjecting here... Remarkably, the Greek letters of the revised Euclides Greek Alphabet, letter-by-letter describes the destruction of MU and its sinking to the bottom of the ocean and states "MU" by name as well!. I put it on the list earlier. Here it is again. See bottom.)
------------------------------
The thousands of years that had elapsed since they first came to Asia Minor had brought about so many of the inevitable changes which distance and isolation foster, that the foregoing revision became a necessity.
While the various revisions were officially accomplished, the Philosophers could not forget their Carian. They retained and used many Carian words in their writings, so that one who knows the old Carian finds the works of the old philosophers permeated with Carian words. The full meaning of these words have not been known to modern translators into English, consequently they have been at a great disadvantage. As an example, I will take the works of the great Greek scholar, B. Jowett, of Oxford. While his Greek translations are the most accurate I have read, yet he has here and there a trip-up. What I have quoted from the Critias, Jowett translates: "And this was not known to you because for many generations the survivors of that destruction made no sign." The word that sign is taken from actually goes back to the vocabulary of the motherland; it was continued with all its various meanings by the Carians or Karras. The word conveyed the meanings of write, sign, record, and keep tabs, dependent on how used. In this case the correct translation is record. The word signature finds its root in this word of the motherland, also to sign and to inscribe. Another example is: "Receiving from the earth-the seed of your race." The origin of this comes out of the ancient symbol, (Horizontal Rectangle not shown), the letter M of the Hieratic Alphabet of the motherland. Mayax and Egypt pronounced Moo also Ma. It means: mother, earth, and land; by extension, country; a proper modern language translation of this is "Your forefathers came from the motherland direct." Here the word Moo, by extension or doubling or conjoining its meanings, becomes Mother-land.
All parts of the earth have suffered in the past from Cataclysms through gas belt forgings. There was the Motherland and Atlantis submerged with all thereon. Central America is known to have been overrun three times and most of the western parts of North America as well. Buried and submerged cities are constantly being found, grim monuments of the havoc and destruction caused by the gas belts.
Each of their lines throughout the world have been lines of calamity and destruction, loss of life and wiping out of civilizations.
Having made the bold statement that great civilizations existed around the eastern end of the Mediterranean 25,000 years ago, some of my readers may think I have unwittingly added a figure to my length of time, but let us calculate. The three civilizations shown on Capital Hill, Smyrna, existed before the mountains were raised and this phenomena is corroborated by Niven's Mexican Buried Cities, now at an altitude of 7,000 feet, and by Tiahuanaco in South America, at an altitude of 15,000 feet. All these are physical proofs. Two of them show by their coverings that cataclysms from the oceans destroyed them. The evidences continue, when we look at Schliemann's Ancient Troys, the Buried Cities of Crete, the Ruins of Baalbeck and the known submerged cities. The manner of the destruction of most of them is told in the Egyptian Temple Histories: namely earthquakes, volcanic fires and Cataclysms. But while these records tell us in what manner the destruction was caused, they do not so far tell us what caused the earthquakes and cataclysms. Other records do. It was the gases or fires of the underneath forging passageways to outlets, which I have termed gas belts. The Egyptians tell us that there was not one flood but many, and the Egyptian records are proved to be true by our finding today many of the cities thus destroyed.
-----------------
-----------------
Note: See the following, about my interjected reference in the above. This is the second time I've sent the material below to the list...
Evidentally, THE GREEK ALPHABET was designed to remind about the destruction of Mu....
Text below is from James Churchward's first book, "The Lost Continent of Mu" Starting on Page 102...
GREECE.-
A few references to the Motherland of Man (Mu) are to be found among the writings of the old Greek philosophers.
In the year 403 B.C., during the archonship of Euclid, the Greek grammarians rearranged the Athenian alphabet in its present form. The Greek alphabet today is composed of Maya vocables forming an epic that relates the destruction of Mu. The translation of the Greek alphabet is as follows...
...The alphabet of the Greeks is an epic composed of Cara-Maya vocables, and is a commemorative memorial to their forefathers who lost their lives at the destruction of Mu.
In Plato's Timeus Critias we find this reference to the lost continent: "The Land of Mu had ten peoples."
Proclus wrote: "The Lands of the 'West had ten peoples."
Here we find two of the old Greek philosophers writing about the Motherland of Man. One uses its hieratical name, the other its geographical name, but both assert that there were ten separate peoples.
THE REVISED GREEK ALPHABET...
Greek Cara Maya. ENGLISH MEANINGS.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Alpha Al, HEAVY; paa, BREAK; ha, WATER
Beta Be, WALK; ta, WHERE, PLACE, PLAIN, GROUND
Gamma Kam, RECEIVE; ma, MOTHER, EARTH
Delta Tel, DEEP, BOTTOM; ta, WHERE, ETC.
Epsilon Ep, OBSTRUCT; zil, MAKE EDGES;
onom, WHIRLWIND
Zeta Ze, STRIKE; ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC.
Eta Et, WITH; ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC.
Theta Thetheha, EXTEND; ha, WATER
Iota Io, ALL THAT WHICH LIVES AND MOVES;
ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC.
Kappa Ka, SEDIMENT, OBSTRUCTION;
paa, BREAK, OBSTRUCT
Lambda Lam, SUBMERGE; be, GO, WALK;
ta, WHERE, GROUND, ETC.
Mu Mu, MU
Ni Ni, POINT, SUMMIT, PEAK
Xi Xi, TO RISE, TO APPEAR OVER
Omikron Om, WHIRL; ik, WIND; le, PLACE; on, CIRCULAR
Pi Pi, TO PLACE LITTLE BY LITTLE
Rho La, UNTIL; ho, COME
Sigma Zi, COLD; ik, WIND; ma, EARTH, MOTHER, ETC.
Tau Ta, WHERE; u, BOTTOM, VALLEY, ABYSS, ETC.
Upsilon U, ABYSS, ETC.; pa, TANK; zi, COLD; le, PLACE;
on, CIRCULAR
Phi Pe, COME, ETC.; hi, MUD, CLAY
Chi Chi, MOUTH OPENING
Psi Pe, COME, OUT, ETC.; zi, VAPOR
Omega O, THERE; mec, WHIRL; ka, SEDIMENTS
---------------------------------------------
Greek Cara Maya. FREE READING
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Al-paa-ha Heavily break the waters
Beta Be-ta extending over the plains
Gamma Kam-ma they cover the lands
Delta Tel-ta in low places, where
Epsilon Ep-zil-on-om there are obstructions, shores
form and whirlpools
Zeta Ze-ta strike the earth
Eta Et-ha with water.
Theta Thetheha-ha The waters spread
Iota Io-ta on all that lives and moves
Kappa Ka-paa obstructions give way and
Lambda Lam-be-ta submerged is the land of
Mu Mu Mu.
Ni Ni Peaks only
Xi Xi appear above the waters
Omikron Om-ik-le-on whirlwinds blow around
Pi Pi and little by little
Rho La-ho until there comes
Sigma Zi-ik-ma cold air. Before
Tau Ta-u where valleys existed, are
Upsilon U-pa-zi-le-on now abysses, cold depths. In
circular places
Phi Pe-hi mud formed.
Chi Chi A mouth
Psi Pe-zi opens, vapors
Omega O-mec-ka come forth and volcanic
-----------------------------------------------
(P. 103) STRAIGHT READING -- Heavily break the waters over the plains. They cover the low places, Where there are obstructions shores form. The earth is struck with water; the waters spread on all that lives and moves, the foundations give way and submerged is the land of Mu. The peaks only appear above the water, whirlwinds blow around until gradually comes cold air. Before where existed valleys are great depths, cold tanks. A mouth opens, out of which vapors pour forth and volcanic sediments.
Hazel...
I'm no geologist either. Thanks for the above food for thought. Velikovsky may have been right about the effect a comet could have had. Remember, Donnelly reported the NEWSPAPER REPORTS of events in surrounding states, just preceding the Chicago fire... whole towns were suddenly consumed by (he contended) enormous HEAT from a passing comet. The story never got into our history books. Just Mrs. O'Leary's cow!
But pole shifts of 180° I personally still find "difficult." Why? Because I remember Dr. Ron Merrill, geologist and physicist interviewed by Laura Lee in November 1997. She questioned him about 180° (and other extreme pole shifts). Merrill said those deductions are UNCERTAIN, because some of the magnetic lines showing different directions in rocks, were LOCALIZED. Other readings taken nearby had shown magnetic lines in quite different directions. As I recall, he said some of these anomalies could also have come about from earlier lava flows being upraised and turned and also from rock strata being shifted about by earthquakes and upheavals.
I think I also read DAVID PRATT, either in his "Gravity" website article or his Hollow Earth "Mysteries" online book, giving similar exceptions to theories about EXTREME polar shifts. Check him out. I'll also go back and re-read.
(By the way, one remark I appreciated from Merrill on that same program, was his courageous assertion: "ALL SCIENCE IS CONJECTURE."
Recall, Churchward described a gyroscopical re-balancing "lurch" when the north pole may have only been pulled out of mean possibly just a short distance past the 23 1/2° normal extreme position. He was uncertain how far. But it seems to me that had earth's north pole been gradually pulled over nearly on its side toward the Sun, the re-balancing "lurch" in the other direction (and probable extreme re-bound back again) might have torn loose parts of the surface and all the waters, shaking them upward to eventually crash down hard. That seems like a magnetic cataclysm so extreme that earth and life could not easily recover from. But my mind is open to the possibility. Can anyone explain how a shift of 180° could take place without geologically nearly destroying this planet?
Re: [allplanets-hollow] Re: Atlantis - The Lost Contin
Hazel...
I'm no geologist either. Thanks for the above food for thought. Velikovsky may have been right about the effect a comet could have had. Remember, Donnelly reported the NEWSPAPER REPORTS of events in surrounding states, just preceding the Chicago fire... whole towns were suddenly consumed by (he contended) enormous HEAT from a passing comet. The story never got into our history books. Just Mrs. O'Leary's cow!
Poor Mrs.O'Leary's cow! But I said there has been 180 pole shifts, not 180 degrees.
But pole shifts of 180° I personally still find "difficult." Why? Because I remember Dr. Ron Merrill, geologist and physicist interviewed by Laura Lee in November 1997. She questioned him about 180° (and other extreme pole shifts). Merrill said those deductions are UNCERTAIN, because some of the magnetic lines showing different directions in rocks, were LOCALIZED. Other readings taken nearby had shown magnetic lines in quite different directions. As I recall, he said some of these anomalies could also have come about from earlier lava flows being upraised and turned and also from rock strata being shifted about by earthquakes and upheavals.
But they would say that!
I think I also read DAVID PRATT, either in his "Gravity" website article or his Hollow Earth "Mysteries" online book, giving similar exceptions to theories about EXTREME polar shifts. Check him out. I'll also go back and re-read.
(By the way, one remark I appreciated from Merrill on that same program, was his courageous assertion: "ALL SCIENCE IS CONJECTURE."
Recall, Churchward described a gyroscopical re-balancing "lurch" when the north pole may have only been pulled out of mean possibly just a short distance past the 23 1/2° normal extreme position. He was uncertain how far. But it seems to me that had earth's north pole been gradually pulled over nearly on its side toward the Sun, the re-balancing "lurch" in the other direction (and probable extreme re-bound back again) might have torn loose parts of the surface and all the waters, shaking them upward to eventually crash down hard. That seems like a magnetic cataclysm so extreme that earth and life could not easily recover from. But my mind is open to the possibility. Can anyone explain how a shift of 180° could take place without geologically nearly destroying this planet?
The planet was nearly destroyed, when Alantis sank, the World was innundated. The gods (Thoth, Quetzalcoatl etc) had to restore plants, agriculture, animal life, scientific knowledge and civilized society to survivors. And look at the 'Red Planet' maybe that's what happens when comets come too close.
Poor Mrs.O'Leary's cow! But I said there has been 180 pole shifts, not 180 degrees.
Apologies, Hazel. Sloppy screen reading on my part. -Dick
Hazel also commented...
You win, Hazel! Can't argue about the above. Probably generally quite true about Atlantis. But then, you said 180 pole shifts, not 180°, which is a lot different than I pictured when I misunderstood you!
Re: [allplanets-hollow] Re: Atlantis - The Lost ContinCommunications with The Council of Nine; on the destruction of Atlantis:
What caused the disappearance of this Atlantean culture, spread from Greece to the Americas?
It was not as is told, a form of Armageddon. It was not. It was the spreading of the Atlantean colonies and the weakening of the civilization, and it was a natural phenomenon.
And some remnants of that were present in South America and some in North America, and so on?
All over. What we are explaining to you is that the loss of it was due to a natural phenomenon--your oceans, your earthquakes. Remember you live on a physical planet.
Was it then a natural cataclysm?
It was brought about by experimentation in hydrogen. Is not hydrogen within your oceans? You understand water? It was not intended for the destruction of others, but it was not totally understood, and it was a dangerous means that then could have created a chain-reaction, because all oceans and atmosphere and land contains water.
Is this connected with what nowadays we call 'heavy water?'
Yes.
And were they seeking to generate energy or.....?
It was curiosity about elements on planet earth, attempting to understand, being fearless without sense.
Some of these problematic characteristics are reappearing now, both in terms of destruction of the planet and our tampering with genetic engineering...
This is exactness, yes.
I'm wondering if we could have an exact date of the final submergence of Atlantis, and did this happen in a very short space of time or...?
It happened overnight...You must understand that when we speak of that time we are distressed. You humans have no recollection--and we do--and if there could be a thing that would disturb the Council of Nine, it is that. There were those that, you would say, came in sheep's clothing but were wolves. It was our oversight. We perhaps underestimated the influence of those who would like our position, (fallen angels?) who were never in a position to have it, do you understand?
Hazel.
Hazel also commented...
The planet was nearly destroyed, when Atlantis sank, the World was innundated. The gods (Thoth, Quetzalcoatl etc) had to restore plants, agriculture, animal life, scientific knowledge and civilized society to survivors. And look at the 'Red Planet' maybe that's what happens when comets come too close.
Hazel
You win, Hazel! Can't argue about the above. Probably generally quite true about Atlantis. But then, you said 180 pole shifts, not 180°, which is a lot different than I pictured when I misunderstood you!
Dick
Pick Category ------------- Flights from Flights to Rooms in Cruises to Vacations from Vacations to
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE WALT DISNEY PRODUCTION, ATLANTIS THE LOST EMPIRE?
FROM RAMON
At 05:14 16/06/01 -0700, you wrote:
Hazel corrected Dick....
Poor Mrs.O'Leary's cow! But I said there has been 180 pole shifts,
not 180 degrees.
Apologies, Hazel. Sloppy screen reading on
my part. -Dick
Hazel also commented...
You win, Hazel! Can't argue
about the above. Probably generally quite true about Atlantis. But
then, you said 180 pole shifts, not 180°, which is a lot different
than I pictured when I misunderstood you!
Dick<!doctype html public
"-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
--></style><title>Re: [allplanets-hollow] Re: Atlantis - The Lost
Contin</title></head><body>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Hazel corrected Dick....
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>Poor Mrs.O'Leary's cow! But I said there has been 180
pole shifts, not 180 degrees.</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>
<blockquote
<span
</span
<span
</span> Apologies, Hazel. Sloppy screen reading on
my part. -Dick</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Hazel also commented...</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>
<blockquote>The planet <i>was</i> nearly destroyed, when Alantis
sank, the World was innundated. The gods (Thoth, Quetzalcoatl etc)
had to restore plants, agriculture, animal life, scientific
knowledge and civilized society to survivors. And look at the
'Red Planet' maybe that's what happens when comets come too
close.</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>Hazel<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div
<span
</span
<span
</span
<span
</span> You win, Hazel! Can't
argue about the above. Probably generally quite true about Atlantis.
But then, you said 180 pole shifts, not 180°, which is a lot
different than I pictured when I misunderstood you!</div>
<div><br></div>
<div
Hazel (from Dick)... you'll have to excuse my complete ignorance, but "who" are "The Council of Nine?" I've noted references about them before. The assertions below about Atlantis' destruction apparently coming about from careless(?) experimentation with HYDROGEN is something I've never heard about before until now. Does the "Council of Nine" elsewhere detail HOW the misuse of Hydrogen brought about a "chain reaction" and what happened from that "chain reaction?" Need detailed explanations. The statements below are too brief for me to imagine the "event." - Dick
-------------------------------
Re: [allplanets-hollow] Re: Atlantis - The Lost ContinDick, The Council of Nine are ellusive about their whereabouts, saying they come from a "zone of cold," interpret that how you will. Ancient Egyptians made reference to "The Nine" which I presume to be the Ennead, the nine original deities, Osiris, Ra, Nut, Isis and the rest...(so does JJ Hurtak.) It seems the gods averted the chain-reaction the hydrogen experiments would have caused, by destroying Atlantis,
"The Nine and the Universal Civilizations (24 Elders) would directly interfere with Planet Earth only if we were on the edge of total annihilation. In the time of Atlantis, Planet Earth was not being rendered unihabitable, as it is now--although there was a risk of heavy water contamination, which could have ended it all. This was presumably dealt with by delivering such a severe environmental blow to the Atlanteans that it put an end to all that."
They go on to say that the anger of people living at this time and the despair of the gods created the 'disturbance' which brought about their demise....and the righteous anger we now feel at the non-action on the current global crisis, should be transformed into a surge of positive wishes for a turn-around. Basically, Atlantis was destroyed by "bad-vibes!"
Ramon, Atlantis has been 'lost' for 11,000 years, now with the advent of
Disney's new summer blockbuster movie, suddenly, it's been FOUND in Cuba.
Imagine that? It's just another billion dollar industry, toys, t-shirts,
computer games and spin-offs galore. Nothing more. Can't wait to see it
though, all the facts will in there, with computer-generated animations,
wrapped up in pure fantasy. Hazel
