I'll take it a step further and say that it's foolish to base a belief so important as human origins on ancient writings found from a long lost society. What if our society were destroyed and several thousand years later archeologists found a cache of CDs containing works of fiction, or even found copies of the books themselves. They'd be trying to decipher our lost culture and their own origins by translating the Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. What Sitchin is doing is really no less risky, whether the Sumerian records are fiction or not.
Blake
···
-----Original Message----- From: Hazel [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:58 AM To:[email protected] Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory
Blake, His theory just dosen't add up and as Heister says, if his translation of 'Nephilim' is wrong (which it is) then the rest of his hypothesis can't stand because it's based on the idea that 'Nephilim' means 'those who came down from the sky in spaceships.' When in fact it means 'a fall from divinity or pure consciousness.' Not monsters but men. Hazel
Great site. I always knew Sitchin was full of it. It's good to see someone has done the work to prove it.
Blake
-----Original Message----- From: Hazel [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 7:21 PM To:[email protected] Subject:
Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory
Dick, I checked out Mike Heiser and he demolishes Sitchin. [http://www.facadenovel.com/Genesis6.pdf](http://www.facadenovel.com/Genesis6.pdf) I feel vindicated. Hazel
** Mike Heiser is currently writing his Ph.D. dissertation titled "Divine Beings in Jewish Literature Written Between the Old and New Testament Periods." He is an expert on angels and divine beings in ancient Semitic texts. Besides his formal academic training, Mike has had a life-long interest in the paranormal, particularly the UFO phenomenon. He is uniquely qualified to write on the intersection of Ufology with ancient texts and mainstream western religions.**
Hazel... We tuned in Heiser a few weeks back knowing nothing about him. We were quite surprised to find out he has a book out, the FACADE, demolishing Sitchin. It seems Heiser can also read the Sumerian tablets. He claimed to Art Bell that though Sitchin presents a lot of good historical details in his books, but when Sitchin "translated" the tablets, Heiser stated that ** Sitchin "INVENTS,** " the on-air "kind" label Heiser plastered on Sitchin. Heiser rattled off several specifics to Art Bell where Sitchin "invented" **entirely different translations** of various tablets that Heiser, had also read, translated and realized ** Sitchin was completely wrong.** Apparently Heiser's book (which I haven't bought) is full of Sitchin "inventions" that Heiser has detected. So important a subject to Heiser, he wrote an entire book.
Bell was astounded and upset. Bell had Sitchin, and several Sitchin devotees as guests several times in the past. Bell finally said (sounding only half serious) he'd like to get Sitchin and Heiser on together to **debate** . (Heiser quickly agreed - but it seems unlikely to me that Sitchin would ever appear with a guy who's exposed his "invented" interpretations of the Sumerian tablets.
Obviously I'm not a Sitchin fan . Many years back I read his first four books, found several of his claims absurd, and was very suspicious Sitchin had "invented" much about the Anunaki to fit Sitchin's own private notions. Suspicious but without evidence until Heiser's recent guest appearance on Art Bell. Afterall, Sitchin, who years earlier had been a former reporter in Tel Aviv, via Russia (just like Velikovsky a decade before), was a great Sumerian scholar. ** Sitchin personally translated all the tablets, didn't he?**
** Apparently NOT according to LLOYD PIE** (one of the devout Sitchin admirers who has written his own Anunaki books in support of Zecharia.)
Pie, the first week of Dec. 1997, on Laura Lee's program, came right out and said ** MOST of the Sumerian tablet translations were done not by Sitchin, but by SAMUEL KRAMER** (whose name was mentioned as one of many source references in Sitchin's first book , without comment).
** Sitchin INTERPRETED Kramer's translations according to Pie** . I was amazed that Pie clearly saw nothing wrong with Sitchin's elaborations while "interpreting" Kramer's translations! I did! Have no idea if Samuel Kramer is still alive.
** Lloyd Pie ALSO identified AMNON SITCHIN, Zecharia's brother, as most responsible for the astronomical details about the 12th Planet** . Amnon, with some background in Astronomy, had come up with "math" and specifics about the 12th Planet. Really gives one "confidence" about their entire 12th Planet story! And the Sitchin tale about gold eating, near "immortal" Anunnaki individuals living in the SAME physical bodies, for 300,000 or is it 450,000 years - or longer? Good God, imagine seeing the SAME face in your mirror for nearly half a million years!
(Hazel, aside... James Churchward wrote that later, greedy, corrupt Priesthoods in India and Egypt i** nvented tales that people can live physically for hundreds of years or even a thousand years**. If individuals would ** give the Priests ALL their money and follow their instructions** , the Priests would guarantee it! Of course when the individual died before time, **the Priests said he had failed to follow their instructions**!
Even if Sitchin accurately interpreted the long life span "translations" about the Anunnaki, did any of the Anunnaki Priests, or whomever carved the tablets, INVENT impressive extended lifetime stories, like some Indian and Egyptian Priests later did? ** Just because things are carved on stone tablets doesn't insure parts of them are not fanciful inventions** . Our government, our media, some of our religious leaders and most political leaders regularly lie to us. Were the Sumerian "authors" possessed only of pure hearts and motives? More likely they were just like about everyone else throughout history! Ezra wrote the Old Testament 800 years after Moses died. How accurate was he? My cynicism is showing again.)
Heiser also upset Art bell with Heiser's his second book that demolishes the BIBLE CODE! Bell had two Bible Code authors on at least 4 times in the past. Bell was regularly impressed and fell over himself saying so. Along comes Heiser with an entire book providing evidence that the Bible Code is PHONY... very selective interpretations by its proponents. (The other website at top is for his book of evidence against the Bible Code)
Bell seemed so shell shocked by Heiser, he didn't keep Heiser on for the full 5 hours. ** I may be wrong, but I bet Heiser will NOT be called back as a future guest by Art Bell.** Bell was NOT pleased by what he heard from Heiser.
Anyway, Hazel, you may find Heiser's 2 books and 2 websites of interest about Sitchin and the Bible Code.
Dick Fojut
** Hazel's original Sitchin email follows..**.
Dear All, Here is an alternative interpretation of Zecharia Sitchin's theory.
Sitchin says; "the word, Nefilim, the name by which those extraordinary beings, the sons of the gods were known, means literally, '* Those who have come down to earth from the heavens.'*
This automatically assumes '* the heavens* ' is outer space. My understanding is that the seven (actually nine) heavens are alternate realities and dimensions; Channelling from the Council of Nine states:
'Not really a dimension, a state of beingŠof consciousness, there are nine of* * them. Level Nine is pure, of great purity. Souls come from Level NineŠsouls are*
*created here'.*
So the son's of the gods, fell not from the sky, but from a state of pure consciousness.
Sitchin claims, "people from that planet (Nibiru) came to Earth almost half a million years ago and did many of the things about which we read in the Bible."
They travelled from their planet to Earth and splashed down in the Persian Gulf. The Sumerians had immense knowledge. They were proficient in mathematics, astronomy, writing and, in many respects, their knowledge surpassed modern times.
They said, "All that we know was told to us by the Anunnaki."
The Father of the Annunaki was Anu, (Zeus, Llud, Odin, Ra, Jove, in other mythologies, usually represening the sun or sky) who resides in the remote *heavens,* on the holy mountain. And to here, his sons returned during the deluge, taking Utnapishtim tooŠso by Sitchin's account they all flew off back to Nibiru.
But Gilgamesh set sail in a boat for the mountain at the end of the Earth, and found Utnapishtim, so he could not have been in some far off planet. He was in fact in the paradise at the estuary of the streams, these four rivers, the Gihon, Hiddikel, Pison and Euphrates originate in Eden (hollow earth) and converge at the polar opening, which is where the Annunaki came from, they were the gods of the underworld.
If the gods return with their planet every 3,600 years as Sitchin believes, and treat earthlings as genetic engineering subjects, or molest the women, why if they are capable of interplanetary flight in spacecraft would they require to wait till Nibiru was between Mars and Jupiter? They could come here at any time, and why go to great lengths to educate and civilize people they plan to enslave?
It is a comet that passes Earth on an eliptical orbit every 3,600 years and reverses the poles, causing deluge and conflagration. The gods return at this time from the *remote heavens* of Anu, to restore civilization, and all fields of learning, to survivors. Then they allow mankind to develop, as they did in Sumeria and Central America, while they keep watch, from the distance. But the people continue to worship them and make offerings and sacrifices to them.
However, one of these gods was in conflict with the others, Enki (Seth, Loki, Mars, Sammael, Satan in the Hermetic tradition) it was he who caused Adam and Eve to be excluded from Eden, which meant they had to endure birth and death, in a lower frequency, material existence (the surface world.) Which is where we all are today. It was the duty of all Maya, through tests and initiation, to conquer death (the gods of the underworld) and so cease to be reincarnated but remain in the higher heavens. Achieving this Afterlife was the sole purpose of existence for Ancient Egyptians.
Hazel
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Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory
Blake, I agree, it's all too Von Daniken, not that he is wrong in assuming advanced civilizations came here from elsewhere, but he then goes on to associate, for example, the Nazca lines as mile long runways, or Baalbek as a spaceport, (Sitchin too) but UFO's can land and take-off vertically from your lawn. And he claims the Olmec heads wear space-helmets, that's a huge conclusion to jump too, the occupants of flying discs don't appear to require head-gear to come here. References to serpents in mythology are multifarious and have many connotation, "be ye wise as serpents" or "that old serpent the devil" it dosen't mean a serpent-race exists (although I'm not discounting it, many people seem convinced, I just can't find the evidence, but I'm looking.) However, if civilization is wiped out, ironically, all that will be left is ancient earthworks, pyramids and monoliths, which future generations would attribute to us, as we attribute them to 'cave-men!' I guess an old episode of the Simpsons would sum up our culture though, for archaeologists of the future. Hazel.
I'll take it a step further and say that it's foolish to base a belief so important as human origins on ancient writings found from a long lost society. What if our society were destroyed and several thousand years later archeologists found a cache of CDs containing works of fiction, or even found copies of the books themselves. They'd be trying to decipher our lost culture and their own origins by translating the Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. What Sitchin is doing is really no less risky, whether the Sumerian records are fiction or not.
Blake
-----Original Message----- From: Hazel [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:58 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory
Blake, His theory just dosen't add up and as Heister says, if his translation of 'Nephilim' is wrong (which it is) then the rest of his hypothesis can't stand because it's based on the idea that 'Nephilim' means 'those who came down from the sky in spaceships.' When in fact it means 'a fall from divinity or pure consciousness.' Not monsters but men. Hazel
Great site. I always knew Sitchin was full of it. It's good to see someone has done the work to prove it.
Blake
-----Original Message----- From: Hazel [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 7:21 PM To:[email protected] Subject:
Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory
Dick, I checked out Mike Heiser and he demolishes Sitchin. [http://www.facadenovel.com/Genesis6.pdf](http://www.facadenovel.com/Genesis6.pdf) I feel vindicated. Hazel
** Mike Heiser is currently writing his Ph.D. dissertation titled "Divine Beings in Jewish Literature Written Between the Old and New Testament Periods." He is an expert on angels and divine beings in ancient Semitic texts. Besides his formal academic training, Mike has had a life-long interest in the paranormal, particularly the UFO phenomenon. He is uniquely qualified to write on the intersection of Ufology with ancient texts and mainstream western religions.**
Hazel... We tuned in Heiser a few weeks back knowing nothing about him. We were quite surprised to find out he has a book out, the FACADE, demolishing Sitchin. It seems Heiser can also read the Sumerian tablets. He claimed to Art Bell that though Sitchin presents a lot of good historical details in his books, but when Sitchin "translated" the tablets, Heiser stated that **Sitchin "INVENTS,** " the on-air "kind" label Heiser plastered on Sitchin. Heiser rattled off several specifics to Art Bell where Sitchin "invented" **entirely different translations** of various tablets that Heiser, had also read, translated and realized ** Sitchin was completely wrong.** Apparently Heiser's book (which I haven't bought) is full of Sitchin "inventions" that Heiser has detected. So important a subject to Heiser, he wrote an entire book.
Bell was astounded and upset. Bell had Sitchin, and several Sitchin devotees as guests several times in the past. Bell finally said (sounding only half serious) he'd like to get Sitchin and Heiser on together to **debate** . (Heiser quickly agreed - but it seems unlikely to me that Sitchin would ever appear with a guy who's exposed his "invented" interpretations of the Sumerian tablets.
Obviously I'm not a Sitchin fan . Many years back I read his first four books, found several of his claims absurd, and was very suspicious Sitchin had "invented" much about the Anunaki to fit Sitchin's own private notions. Suspicious but without evidence until Heiser's recent guest appearance on Art Bell. Afterall, Sitchin, who years earlier had been a former reporter in Tel Aviv, via Russia (just like Velikovsky a decade before), was a great Sumerian scholar. ** Sitchin personally translated all the tablets, didn't he?**
** Apparently NOT according to LLOYD PIE** (one of the devout Sitchin admirers who has written his own Anunaki books in support of Zecharia.)
Pie, the first week of Dec. 1997, on Laura Lee's program, came right out and said ** MOST of the Sumerian tablet translations were done not by Sitchin, but by SAMUEL KRAMER**
(whose name was mentioned as one of many source references in Sitchin's first book , without comment).
** Sitchin INTERPRETED Kramer's translations according to Pie** . I was amazed that Pie clearly saw nothing wrong with Sitchin's elaborations while "interpreting" Kramer's translations! I did! Have no idea if Samuel Kramer is still alive.
** Lloyd Pie ALSO identified AMNON SITCHIN, Zecharia's brother, as most responsible for the astronomical details about the 12th Planet** . Amnon, with some background in Astronomy, had come up with "math" and specifics about the 12th Planet. Really gives one "confidence" about their entire 12th Planet story! And the Sitchin tale about gold eating, near "immortal" Anunnaki individuals living in the SAME physical bodies, for 300,000 or is it 450,000 years - or longer? Good God, imagine seeing the SAME face in your mirror for nearly half a million years!
(Hazel, aside... James Churchward wrote that later, greedy, corrupt Priesthoods in India and Egypt i** nvented tales that people can live physically for hundreds of years or even a thousand years**. If individuals would ** give the Priests ALL their money and follow their instructions** , the Priests would guarantee it! Of course when the individual died before time, ** the Priests said he had failed to follow their instructions**!
Even if Sitchin accurately interpreted the long life span "translations" about the Anunnaki, did any of the Anunnaki Priests, or whomever carved the tablets, INVENT impressive extended lifetime stories, like some Indian and Egyptian Priests later did? ** Just because things are carved on stone tablets doesn't insure parts of them are not fanciful inventions** . Our government, our media, some of our religious leaders and most political leaders regularly lie to us. Were the Sumerian "authors" possessed only of pure hearts and motives? More likely they were just like about everyone else throughout history! Ezra wrote the Old Testament 800 years after Moses died. How accurate was he? My cynicism is showing again.)
Heiser also upset Art bell with Heiser's his second book that demolishes the BIBLE CODE! Bell had two Bible Code authors on at least 4 times in the past. Bell was regularly impressed and fell over himself saying so. Along comes Heiser with an entire book providing evidence that the Bible Code is PHONY... very selective interpretations by its proponents. (The other website at top is for his book of evidence against the Bible Code)
Bell seemed so shell shocked by Heiser, he didn't keep Heiser on for the full 5 hours. ** I may be wrong, but I bet Heiser will NOT be called back as a future guest by Art Bell.** Bell was NOT pleased by what he heard from Heiser.
Anyway, Hazel, you may find Heiser's 2 books and 2 websites of interest about Sitchin and the Bible Code.
Dick Fojut
** Hazel's original Sitchin email follows..**.
Dear All, Here is an alternative interpretation of Zecharia Sitchin's theory.
Sitchin says; "the word, Nefilim, the name by which those extraordinary beings, the sons of the gods were known, means literally, '* Those who have come down to earth from the heavens.'*
This automatically assumes '* the heavens* ' is outer space. My understanding is that the seven (actually nine) heavens are alternate realities and dimensions; Channelling from the Council of Nine states:
'Not really a dimension, a state of beingŠof consciousness, there are nine of* * them. Level Nine is pure, of great purity. Souls come from Level NineŠsouls are*
*created here'.*
So the son's of the gods, fell not from the sky, but from a state of pure consciousness.
Sitchin claims, "people from that planet (Nibiru) came to Earth almost half a million years ago and did many of the things about which we read in the Bible."
They travelled from their planet to Earth and splashed down in the Persian Gulf. The Sumerians had immense knowledge. They were proficient in mathematics, astronomy, writing and, in many respects, their knowledge surpassed modern times.
They said, "All that we know was told to us by the Anunnaki."
The Father of the Annunaki was Anu, (Zeus, Llud, Odin, Ra, Jove, in other mythologies, usually represening the sun or sky) who resides in the remote * heavens,* on the holy mountain. And to here, his sons returned during the deluge, taking Utnapishtim tooŠso by Sitchin's account they all flew off back to Nibiru.
But Gilgamesh set sail in a boat for the mountain at the end of the Earth, and found Utnapishtim, so he could not have been in some far off planet. He was in fact in the paradise at the estuary of the streams, these four rivers, the Gihon, Hiddikel, Pison and Euphrates originate in Eden (hollow earth) and converge at the polar opening, which is where the Annunaki came from, they were the gods of the underworld.
If the gods return with their planet every 3,600 years as Sitchin believes, and treat earthlings as genetic engineering subjects, or molest the women, why if they are capable of interplanetary flight in spacecraft would they require to wait till Nibiru was between Mars and Jupiter? They could come here at any time, and why go to great lengths to educate and civilize people they plan to enslave?
It is a comet that passes Earth on an eliptical orbit every 3,600 years and reverses the poles, causing deluge and conflagration. The gods return at this time from the *remote heavens* of Anu, to restore civilization, and all fields of learning, to survivors. Then they allow mankind to develop, as they did in Sumeria and Central America, while they keep watch, from the distance. But the people continue to worship them and make offerings and sacrifices to them.
However, one of these gods was in conflict with the others, Enki (Seth, Loki, Mars, Sammael, Satan in the Hermetic tradition) it was he who caused Adam and Eve to be excluded from Eden, which meant they had to endure birth and death, in a lower frequency, material existence (the surface world.) Which is where we all are today. It was the duty of all Maya, through tests and initiation, to conquer death (the gods of the underworld) and so cease to be reincarnated but remain in the higher heavens. Achieving this Afterlife was the sole purpose of existence for Ancient Egyptians.
Hazel
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` To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected]
Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's
Theory
(From Dick)... AGREE with Hazel and Blake!\
Dick
···
Blake, I agree, it's all too Von
Daniken, not that he is wrong in assuming advanced civilizations came
here from elsewhere, but he then goes on to associate, for example,
the Nazca lines as mile long runways, or Baalbek as a spaceport,
(Sitchin too) but UFO's can land and take-off vertically from your
lawn. And he claims the Olmec heads wear space-helmets, that's a huge
conclusion to jump too, the occupants of flying discs don't
appear to require head-gear to come here. References to serpents in
mythology are multifarious and have many connotation, "be ye
wise as serpents" or "that old serpent the devil" it
dosen't mean a serpent-race exists (although I'm not discounting it,
many people seem convinced, I just can't find the evidence, but I'm
looking.) However, if civilization is wiped out, ironically, all
that will be left is ancient earthworks, pyramids and monoliths,
which future generations would attribute to us, as we attribute
them to 'cave-men!' I guess an old episode of the Simpsons would sum
up our culture though, for archaeologists of the future. Hazel.
Hazel,
I'll take it a step
further and say that it's foolish to base a belief so important as
human origins on ancient writings found from a long lost
society. What if our society were destroyed and several thousand
years later archeologists found a cache of CDs containing works of
fiction, or even found copies of the books themselves. They'd be
trying to decipher our lost culture and their own origins
by translating the Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. What Sitchin is
doing is really no less risky, whether the Sumerian records are
fiction or not.
Blake