Dean, and fellow hollow-earthers, I'm going to take some time-out and unsubscribe for a while, if I can. I've blabbed enough and told you all I know about orgone, but there's a certain umbrageousness come over the group. Arguments are not good for my disposition, only debate. Hazel.
Norlan,
I think that you could have made all those points without blowing your lid like that. If somebody wants to question whether a major religious organization might not have " agendas ", or might not be manipulated by aliens or an underground world, then they have the right to do so as long as they mind their manners about it.
Look at the Catholic Church, from the Crusades to WWII- ulterior motives and some incorrect activities. How about Islam- for an illiterate to suddenly go into a trance and dictate a whole scripture, no less, then run off and systematically destroy every last vestige of the previous culture like that is unusual, to say the least. In many circles it has been suggested that Mohamed might have been channeled by the same UFO occupants who are currently interfering with agendas on the surface of the Earth. Even so, the followers of that religion aren't aliens, either.
It is all right to question. However, any questioning, and statement, simply has to stand or fall based on its own merit. You are free to introduce opposing logic- persuasion and logic would have taken you far because, to begin with, the Church of the Latter Day Saints isn't the Catholic Church. For example, your points about the Temple being subject to inspection and such are good points. The place isn't immune like the Vatican.
You were very extreme, you accused some people of over reacting, but you really, really over-reacted. You accused Mike of " aggressive support " of the points he brought up, but he wasn't agressive. You mentioned that he holds those opinions " so dear," but he is not so attached that he has never been willing to hear people out. And you called people ignorant and suggested that people were " stupid " and " idiots."
Your whole tone was the worst thing. Something like this can ruin a list. people might get off because of this or not speak up in the future.
We have to be able to be introspective and hear what others say about us without going ballistic. I've often wondered if the Hare Krishna movement wasn't infiltrated and run into the ground. 95% of the members were very sincere but some heavies elbowed their way to the top and typically made bad decisions and did bad things that couldn't have been scripted better by the movement's worst enemy.
To tell you the truth, I kind of side with you. Niether polygamy, nor the Temple basement, nor church rituals make a case at all.
But you went way beyond the issues, you practically made public fools out of other list members.
I need an hour or two to digest this. There are a lot of new people on the list- I don't want you all to think that the list has been contentious in the past. It has never been. We've spent months just talking about Arctic explorers, digging up maps, talkng about Etidorhpa and stuff like that. it's been a joy, this is an aberration.
Like I say, I need an hour or so.
Dharma/Dean
Very good response DD! Now, I have to get back to work.
Leslee
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
Dean De Lucia
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 4:19 PM
Subject: [allplanets-hollow] Norlan!
Norlan,
I think that you could have made all those points without blowing your lid like that. If somebody wants to question whether a major religious organization might not have " agendas ", or might not be manipulated by aliens or an underground world, then they have the right to do so as long as they mind their manners about it.
Look at the Catholic Church, from the Crusades to WWII- ulterior motives and some incorrect activities. How about Islam- for an illiterate to suddenly go into a trance and dictate a whole scripture, no less, then run off and systematically destroy every last vestige of the previous culture like that is unusual, to say the least. In many circles it has been suggested that Mohamed might have been channeled by the same UFO occupants who are currently interfering with agendas on the surface of the Earth. Even so, the followers of that religion aren't aliens, either.
It is all right to question. However, any questioning, and statement, simply has to stand or fall based on its own merit. You are free to introduce opposing logic- persuasion and logic would have taken you far because, to begin with, the Church of the Latter Day Saints isn't the Catholic Church. For example, your points about the Temple being subject to inspection and such are good points. The place isn't immune like the Vatican.
You were very extreme, you accused some people of over reacting, but you really, really over-reacted. You accused Mike of " aggressive support " of the points he brought up, but he wasn't agressive. You mentioned that he holds those opinions " so dear," but he is not so attached that he has never been willing to hear people out. And you called people ignorant and suggested that people were " stupid " and " idiots."
Your whole tone was the worst thing. Something like this can ruin a list. people might get off because of this or not speak up in the future.
We have to be able to be introspective and hear what others say about us without going ballistic. I've often wondered if the Hare Krishna movement wasn't infiltrated and run into the ground. 95% of the members were very sincere but some heavies elbowed their way to the top and typically made bad decisions and did bad things that couldn't have been scripted better by the movement's worst enemy.
To tell you the truth, I kind of side with you. Niether polygamy, nor the Temple basement, nor church rituals make a case at all.
But you went way beyond the issues, you practically made public fools out of other list members.
I need an hour or two to digest this. There are a lot of new people on the list- I don't want you all to think that the list has been contentious in the past. It has never been. We've spent months just talking about Arctic explorers, digging up maps, talkng about Etidorhpa and stuff like that. it's been a joy, this is an aberration.
Like I say, I need an hour or so.
Dharma/Dean
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Members,
I think that cooler heads are prevailing and that we are in the process of kissing and making up.
Any comments on Seven Days North of Tibet?
http://www.skywebsite.com/hollow/arctic/
: ^ )
DD
Fellow HE'ers,
I am going to interject a little "mystical" intervention here, although this is not my group.
First off--this is happening on quite a few groups today, as I have seen it on ALL my other groups---so, perhaps we could chalk it up to "universal havoc" as in an unseen force that is bringing out our worst.
Hazel, it is ludicrous for you to leave as anyone can see that you hold a true passion for the HE....so, take a day but don't leave.
Mike is a very knowledgeable man, and I do not think he would ever intentionally insult anyone, but he is a master at debate, which is what this list is all about.
Terry I don't l know well yet, but hey, if he stated some things which Nolan was not in agreement with, then I say to Nolan, not all of us have the same knowledge, we each bring things to the list, and perhaps instead of criticizing, you could have instead informed us of your views so that it would give us a different perspective.
We all need to agree to disagree, and remember that when we debate we are tossing out ideas, not to insult others, but to learn from them.
All you newcomers, I have been on this list for quite awhile, and this is the first time anything like this has transpired. This is truly a wonderful place to learn, and my favorite group of all 15 that I belong!
I think that Deans' post said it best. We are suppose to be a team....and until today we were a pretty good one.
So, why don't we call it a day, and wipe the slate clean. I would hate to see anyone leave.
In Spirit, Leslee
···
From: Hazel
To: hollow planets
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 2:41 PM
Subject: [allplanets-hollow] unsubscribe-time
Dean, and fellow hollow-earthers, I'm going to take some time-out and unsubscribe for a while, if I can. I've blabbed enough and told you all I know about orgone, but there's a certain umbrageousness come over the group. Arguments are not good for my disposition, only debate. Hazel.
` To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]`
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [Yahoo! Terms of Service](http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 5/31/01