Sitchin's Theory

ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW Yahoo Group (Old Posts)
1

Sitchin says; “the word, Nefilim, the name by which those extraordinary
beings, the sons of the gods were known, means literal
Dear All, Here is an alternative interpretation of Zecharia Sitchin’s
theory.

Sitchin says; “the word, Nefilim, the name by which those extraordinary
beings, the sons of the gods were known, means literally, ‘Those who have come down to earth from the heavens.’

This automatically assumes ‘the
heavens’ is outer space. My understanding is that the seven
(actually nine) heavens are alternate realities and dimensions; Channelling from the Council of Nine states:

‘Not
really a dimension, a state of being…of consciousness, there are nine of
them.
Level Nine is pure, of great purity. Souls come from Level Nine…souls are
created
here’.

So the son’s of the gods, fell not from the sky, but from a state of
pure consciousness.

Sitchin claims, “people from that planet (Nibiru) came to Earth almost
half a million years ago and did many of the things about which we read in the
Bible.”

They travelled from their planet to Earth and splashed down in the
Persian Gulf. The Sumerians had immense knowledge. They were proficient in
mathematics, astronomy, writing and, in many respects, their knowledge
surpassed modern times.

They said, "All that
we know was told to us by the Anunnaki."

The Father of the Annunaki was Anu, (Zeus, Llud, Odin, Ra, Jove, in
other mythologies, usually represening the sun or sky) who resides in the
remote heavens, on the holy
mountain. And to here, his sons returned during the deluge, taking Utnapishtim
too…so by Sitchin’s account they all flew off back to Nibiru.

But Gilgamesh set sail in a boat for the mountain at the end of the
Earth, and found Utnapishtim, so he could not have been in some far off planet.
He was in fact in the paradise at the estuary of the streams, these four
rivers, the Gihon, Hiddikel, Pison and Euphrates originate in Eden (hollow
earth) and converge at the polar opening, which is where the Annunaki came
from, they were the gods of the underworld.

If the gods return with their planet every 3,600 years as Sitchin
believes, and treat earthlings as genetic engineering subjects, or molest the
women, why if they are capable of interplanetary flight in spacecraft would
they require to wait till Nibiru was between Mars and Jupiter? They could come
here at any time, and why go to great lengths to educate and civilize people
they plan to enslave?

It is a comet that passes Earth on an eliptical orbit every 3,600 years
and reverses the poles, causing deluge and conflagration. The gods return at
this time from the remote heavens
of Anu, to restore civilization, and all fields of learning, to survivors. Then
they allow mankind to develop, as they did in Sumeria and Central America,
while they keep watch, from the distance. But the people continue to worship
them and make offerings and sacrifices to them.

However, one of these gods was in conflict with the others, Enki (Seth,
Loki, Mars, Sammael, Satan in the Hermetic tradition) it was he who caused Adam
and Eve to be excluded from Eden, which meant they had to endure birth and
death, in a lower frequency, material existence (the surface world.) Which is
where we all are today. It was the duty of all Maya, through tests and
initiation, to conquer death (the gods of the underworld) and so cease to be
reincarnated but remain in the higher heavens. Achieving this Afterlife was the
sole purpose of existence for Ancient Egyptians.

Hazel

2

Hazel,

This automatically assumes �the heavens� is outer space. My

understanding is that

the seven (actually nine) heavens are alternate realities and

dimensions;

Going by the Vedic understanding these 'heavens' are called 'loka' which
may mean
a planet, its inhabitants, in wider sense a dimension of life (as one
meaning is 'wave').

Channelling from the Council of Nine states:
�Not really a dimension, a state of being�of consciousness, there are

nine of

them. Level Nine is pure, of great purity. Souls come from Level

Nine�souls are > created here�.

I'm not enthusiastic about channeling (and other New Age stuff for that
matter) because we don't know the source. Who are those entities? We may
only judge by the nature of their information.

Living being in a Vedic sense - jiva/atma - is not created. Neither is
it created in the biblical understanding as far as I know. Only the
'breath of God' is mentioned in this connection and this is closer to
prana, the living force (subtle yet material energy) as
my little research has shown.

The Father of the Annunaki was Anu, (Zeus, Llud, Odin, Ra, Jove, in

other

mythologies, usually represening the sun or sky) who resides in the

remote

heavens, on the holy mountain.

I understand that Zeus is Indra and Odin is Varuna. In Vedic samhitas
they are two most prominent devas. Residence: top of Mt. Meru (Olympus,
Asgard...), the cosmic axis. Heavenly Ganga there divides into four
branches.

why if they are capable of interplanetary flight in spacecraft would

they require to > wait till Nibiru was between Mars and Jupiter?

This could be the case if they couldn't fly too far (like space shuttle
8).

and why go to great lengths to educate and civilize people they plan

to enslave?

Advanced slaves seem to me more useful/productive than enslaved
barbarians.

It was the duty of all Maya, through tests and initiation, to conquer

death

(the gods of the underworld) and so cease to be reincarnated but

remain in the

higher heavens.

Remaining in the higher heavens in this material universe means to
prolong one's life and increase its standard but not to cease
reincarnation. For this one must be free from all material tinges, even
desire for liberation. Still the basic Vedic goal was these higher
heavens. It is also the goal of most religions.

Is this getting too religious? Ok, I quit. 8)

Jan

3

Hi, People have recieved inspiration and automatic writing, (like
channelling) for centuries, many great composers and authors, felt their
work was coming from unseen sources. The Council of Nine teach only the
highest humanitarian ideals.

I'm not enthusiastic about channeling (and other New Age stuff for that
matter) because we don't know the source. Who are those entities? We may
only judge by the nature of their information.

Living being in a Vedic sense - jiva/atma - is not created. Neither is
it created in the biblical understanding as far as I know. Only the
'breath of God' is mentioned in this connection and this is closer to
prana, the living force (subtle yet material energy) as
my little research has shown.

My understanding is, our 'daily bread' is the ether which sustains life
without breath or food.

> The Father of the Annunaki was Anu, (Zeus, Llud, Odin, Ra, Jove, in
other
> mythologies, usually represening the sun or sky) who resides in the
remote
> heavens, on the holy mountain.

I understand that Zeus is Indra and Odin is Varuna. In Vedic samhitas
they are two most prominent devas. Residence: top of Mt. Meru (Olympus,
Asgard...), the cosmic axis. Heavenly Ganga there divides into four
branches.

I can get my deities mixed up, but the point is, they reside in the Holy
Mountain, Zion, Parnassus, Nisir, Olympus, Meru...at the navel of the Earth,
the gods did not descend from 'the sky' but the seven heavens, where
incidentally, Enoch was taken, although some scholars believe he too went
into outer-space.

> why if they are capable of interplanetary flight in spacecraft would
they require to > wait till Nibiru was between Mars and Jupiter?

This could be the case if they couldn't fly too far (like space shuttle
8).

So, they wait 3,600 years to come back and meddle with mankind, funny how
civilization is wiped out by a natural catastrophe in that cycle, and 'gods'
reintroduce advanced knowledge, to people who have probably resorted to
cannabilism for survival.

> and why go to great lengths to educate and civilize people they plan
to enslave?

Advanced slaves seem to me more useful/productive than enslaved
barbarians.

History does not bear that out, Africans were kept in complete ignorance,
reading was banned, knowledge is power and an educated slave would free
himself and his fellows. But the Sumerians were taught sophisticated methods
for recording their history on copper cylinder seals, astronomical knowledge
beyond our own, the had institutions where learning was most vital. And this
we are supposed to believe was from, reptilian, shape-shifting,
blood-sucking, evil extraterrestrials, who biologically engineered them from
test tubes as gold slaves? The Maya portrayed their gods as jaguars,
lizards, birds and monkeys, it does not mean they were part creature.

> It was the duty of all Maya, through tests and initiation, to conquer
death
> (the gods of the underworld) and so cease to be reincarnated but
remain in the
> higher heavens.

Remaining in the higher heavens in this material universe means to
prolong one's life and increase its standard but not to cease
reincarnation. For this one must be free from all material tinges, even
desire for liberation. Still the basic Vedic goal was these higher
heavens. It is also the goal of most religions.

Is this getting too religious?

Why is religion taboo?

Hazel

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4

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's
Theory
Hazel (from Dick Fojut) about your original Sitchin email
below...

If you missed MIKE HEISER
about Sitchin, on Art Bell a few Fridays back, check out
Heiser's 2 websites following:

www.facadenovel.com

www.biblecodemyth.com

Here's the copy from Bell's website about Heiser:

Guest: Mike Heiser

Mike Heiser is currently writing his Ph.D. dissertation
titled "Divine Beings in Jewish Literature Written Between the
Old and New Testament Periods." He is an expert on angels and
divine beings in ancient Semitic texts. Besides his formal academic
training, Mike has had a life-long interest in the paranormal,
particularly the UFO phenomenon. He is uniquely qualified to write on
the intersection of Ufology with ancient texts and mainstream western
religions.

Hazel... We tuned in Heiser a few weeks
back knowing nothing about him. We were quite surprised to find out
he has a book out, the FACADE, demolishing Sitchin. It seems Heiser
can also read the Sumerian tablets. He claimed to Art Bell that
though Sitchin presents a lot of good historical details in his
books, but when Sitchin "translated" the tablets, Heiser stated
that Sitchin "INVENTS," the on-air "kind" label
Heiser plastered on Sitchin. Heiser rattled off several specifics to
Art Bell where Sitchin "invented" entirely different
translations of various tablets that Heiser, had also read,
translated and realized Sitchin was completely wrong.
Apparently Heiser's book (which I haven't bought) is full of Sitchin
"inventions" that Heiser has detected. So important a subject to
Heiser, he wrote an entire book.

Bell was astounded and upset. Bell had
Sitchin, and several Sitchin devotees as guests several times in the
past. Bell finally said (sounding only half serious) he'd like to get
Sitchin and Heiser on together to debate. (Heiser quickly
agreed - but it seems unlikely to me that Sitchin would ever appear
with a guy who's exposed his "invented" interpretations of the
Sumerian tablets.

Obviously I'm not a Sitchin fan.
Many years back I read his first four books, found several of his
claims absurd, and was very suspicious Sitchin had
"invented" much about the Anunaki to fit Sitchin's own private
notions. Suspicious but without evidence until Heiser's recent guest
appearance on Art Bell. Afterall, Sitchin, who years earlier had been
a former reporter in Tel Aviv, via Russia (just like Velikovsky a
decade before), was a great Sumerian scholar. Sitchin personally
translated all the tablets, didn't he?

Apparently NOT according to LLOYD
PIE (one of the devout Sitchin admirers who has written his own
Anunaki books in support of Zecharia.)

Pie, the first week of Dec. 1997, on
Laura Lee's program, came right out and said MOST of the Sumerian
tablet translations were done not by Sitchin, but by SAMUEL
KRAMER (whose name was mentioned as one of many source references
in Sitchin's first book , without comment).

Sitchin INTERPRETED Kramer's
translations according to Pie. I was amazed that Pie clearly saw
nothing wrong with Sitchin's elaborations while "interpreting"
Kramer's translations! I did! Have no idea if Samuel Kramer is
still alive.

Lloyd Pie ALSO identified AMNON
SITCHIN, Zecharia's brother, as most responsible for the astronomical
details about the 12th Planet. Amnon, with some background
in Astronomy, had come up with "math" and specifics about the
12th Planet. Really gives one "confidence" about their entire
12th Planet story! And the Sitchin tale about gold eating, near
"immortal" Anunnaki individuals living in the SAME physical
bodies, for 300,000 or is it 450,000 years - or longer? Good God,
imagine seeing the SAME face in your mirror for nearly half a million
years!

···

(Hazel, aside... James Churchward
wrote that later, greedy, corrupt Priesthoods in India and Egypt
invented tales that people can live physically for hundreds of
years or even a thousand years. If individuals would give the
Priests ALL their money and follow their instructions, the
Priests would guarantee it! Of course when the individual died
before time, the Priests said he had failed to follow their
instructions!

Even if Sitchin accurately interpreted
the long life span "translations" about the Anunnaki, did any of
the Anunnaki Priests, or whomever carved the tablets, INVENT
impressive extended lifetime stories, like some Indian and Egyptian
Priests later did? Just because things are carved on stone tablets
doesn't insure parts of them are not fanciful inventions. Our
government, our media, some of our religious leaders and most
political leaders regularly lie to us. Were the Sumerian
"authors" possessed only of pure hearts and motives? More likely
they were just like about everyone else throughout history! Ezra
wrote the Old Testament 800 years after Moses died. How accurate was
he? My cynicism is showing again.)

Heiser also upset Art bell with
Heiser's his second book that demolishes the BIBLE CODE! Bell had two
Bible Code authors on at least 4 times in the past. Bell was
regularly impressed and fell over himself saying so. Along comes
Heiser with an entire book providing evidence that the Bible Code is
PHONY... very selective interpretations by its proponents. (The other
website at top is for his book of evidence against the Bible
Code)

Bell seemed so shell shocked by Heiser,
he didn't keep Heiser on for the full 5 hours. I may be wrong, but
I bet Heiser will NOT be called back as a future guest by Art
Bell. Bell was NOT pleased by what he heard from Heiser.

Anyway, Hazel, you may find
Heiser's 2 books and 2 websites of interest about Sitchin and the
Bible Code.

  • Dick Fojut

Hazel's original Sitchin email
follows...

Dear All, Here is an alternative
interpretation of Zecharia Sitchin's theory.

Sitchin says; "the word, Nefilim, the
name by which those extraordinary beings, the sons of the gods were
known, means literally, 'Those who have come down to earth from
the heavens.'
**
This automatically assumes 'the
heavens' is outer space. My understanding is that the seven
(actually nine) heavens are alternate realities and dimensions; Channelling from the Council of Nine states:
**
'Not really a dimension, a state of
being�of consciousness, there are nine of them. Level Nine
is pure, of great purity. Souls come from Level Nine�souls are
created here'.

So the son's of the gods, fell not
from the sky, but from a state of pure consciousness.
Sitchin claims, "people from that
planet (Nibiru) came to Earth almost half a million years ago and did
many of the things about which we read in the Bible."

They travelled from their planet to
Earth and splashed down in the Persian Gulf. The Sumerians had
immense knowledge. They were proficient in mathematics, astronomy,
writing and, in many respects, their knowledge surpassed modern
times.

They said, "All that we know
was told to us by the Anunnaki."

The Father of the Annunaki was Anu,
(Zeus, Llud, Odin, Ra, Jove, in other mythologies, usually
represening the sun or sky) who resides in the remote *heavens,*on the holy mountain. And to here, his sons returned during the
deluge, taking Utnapishtim too�so by Sitchin's account they all
flew off back to Nibiru.

But Gilgamesh set sail in a boat for the
mountain at the end of the Earth, and found Utnapishtim, so he could
not have been in some far off planet. He was in fact in the paradise
at the estuary of the streams, these four rivers, the Gihon,
Hiddikel, Pison and Euphrates originate in Eden (hollow earth) and
converge at the polar opening, which is where the Annunaki came from,
they were the gods of the underworld.

If the gods return with their planet
every 3,600 years as Sitchin believes, and treat earthlings as
genetic engineering subjects, or molest the women, why if they are
capable of interplanetary flight in spacecraft would they require to
wait till Nibiru was between Mars and Jupiter? They could come here
at any time, and why go to great lengths to educate and civilize
people they plan to enslave?

It is a comet that passes Earth on an
eliptical orbit every 3,600 years and reverses the poles, causing
deluge and conflagration. The gods return at this time from the
remote heavens of Anu, to restore civilization, and all fields
of learning, to survivors. Then they allow mankind to develop, as
they did in Sumeria and Central America, while they keep watch, from
the distance. But the people continue to worship them and make
offerings and sacrifices to them.

However, one of these gods was in
conflict with the others, Enki (Seth, Loki, Mars, Sammael, Satan in
the Hermetic tradition) it was he who caused Adam and Eve to be
excluded from Eden, which meant they had to endure birth and death,
in a lower frequency, material existence (the surface world.) Which
is where we all are today. It was the duty of all Maya, through tests
and initiation, to conquer death (the gods of the underworld) and so
cease to be reincarnated but remain in the higher heavens. Achieving
this Afterlife was the sole purpose of existence for Ancient
Egyptians.

Hazel

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5

People have recieved inspiration and automatic writing, (like
channelling) for centuries, many great composers and authors,
felt their work was coming from unseen sources.

Therefore I said one has to judge by the results as these sources
were of quite various nature. The best inspiration comes from
Paramatma, the 'inner voice'.

The Council of Nine teach only the highest humanitarian ideals.

From the Vaishnava point of view they are rejected. Jiva in its
original position is free from all material designations like
human, animal, deva, demon etc. This is where Bhagavad-gita
starts. And Gita is just a primer.

You may read a comparison between Vedic tradition and New
Age at http://veda.harekrsna.cz/html/enc/newage.htm

Why is religion taboo?

It's just off topic. Rather than debates over personal opinions
(esp. on such vague subjects like UFO with precious little hard
evidence similar to the one from Israel in 90') I'd like to see
some further HE evidence.

Jan

6

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory
Dick, Thanks for backing me up on this, that's what I wanted to hear. But I'll be honest, I've never read Sitchin's books although I'm aware of the gist of it and seen him interviewed on Discovery (Discovery Channel loves to highlight red-herrings or half-truths, to put us off the scent.)

But the mythology I've read clearly says the Annunaki were seven gods of the underworld, so where did Nibiru come from? The telfth planet according to Sitchin travels on an eliptical orbit past Mars every 3,600 years, when astronomers recently detected a comet, on this orbit, Sitchin says that proves there must be a twelfth planet. I think his planet *is *this comet and not the Annunaki returning, they never went away....I go purely on gut feeling about a person or their theories, and I am dubious about Sitchin's claims to deciphering Sumerian Tablets. I've read the Bible Code, if it is real, it implies a computer-like mind wrote it thousands of years ago. I'm a bit sceptical. BTW, I love your scientific Churchward theories, I find some of it quite complicated but it's details I need to know and gives me a clearer understanding of electromagnetism, the key to the workings of Earth. I'll check out what Mike Heisters got to say and funnily enough, I've never been drawn to Art Bell either, although he appears to have the same interests as me.

Hazel

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Dick Fojut

To: [email protected]

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 5:46 AM

Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory

Hazel (from Dick Fojut) about your original Sitchin email below...

If you missed MIKE HEISER ** about Sitchi** n, on Art Bell a few Fridays back, check out Heiser's 2 websites following:

www.facadenovel.com

www.biblecodemyth.com

Here's the copy from Bell's website about Heiser:

Guest: Mike Heiser

** Mike Heiser is currently writing his Ph.D. dissertation titled "Divine Beings in Jewish Literature Written Between the Old and New Testament Periods." He is an expert on angels and divine beings in ancient Semitic texts. Besides his formal academic training, Mike has had a life-long interest in the paranormal, particularly the UFO phenomenon. He is uniquely qualified to write on the intersection of Ufology with ancient texts and mainstream western religions.**

Hazel... We tuned in Heiser a few weeks back knowing nothing about him. We were quite surprised to find out he has a book out, the FACADE, demolishing Sitchin. It seems Heiser can also read the Sumerian tablets. He claimed to Art Bell that though Sitchin presents a lot of good historical details in his books, but when Sitchin "translated" the tablets, Heiser stated that Sitchin "INVENTS, " the on-air "kind" label Heiser plastered on Sitchin. Heiser rattled off several specifics to Art Bell where Sitchin "invented" entirely different translations of various tablets that Heiser, had also read, translated and realized ** Sitchin was completely wrong.** Apparently Heiser's book (which I haven't bought) is full of Sitchin "inventions" that Heiser has detected. So important a subject to Heiser, he wrote an entire book.

Bell was astounded and upset. Bell had Sitchin, and several Sitchin devotees as guests several times in the past. Bell finally said (sounding only half serious) he'd like to get Sitchin and Heiser on together to debate . (Heiser quickly agreed - but it seems unlikely to me that Sitchin would ever appear with a guy who's exposed his "invented" interpretations of the Sumerian tablets.

Obviously I'm not a Sitchin fan . Many years back I read his first four books, found several of his claims absurd, and was very suspicious Sitchin had "invented" much about the Anunaki to fit Sitchin's own private notions. Suspicious but without evidence until Heiser's recent guest appearance on Art Bell. Afterall, Sitchin, who years earlier had been a former reporter in Tel Aviv, via Russia (just like Velikovsky a decade before), was a great Sumerian scholar. Sitchin personally translated all the tablets, didn't he?

Apparently NOT according to LLOYD PIE
(one of the devout Sitchin admirers who has written his own Anunaki books in support of Zecharia.)

Pie, the first week of Dec. 1997, on Laura Lee's program, came right out and said ** MOST of the Sumerian tablet translations were done not by Sitchin, but by SAMUEL KRAMER** (whose name was mentioned as one of many source references in Sitchin's first book , without comment).

** Sitchin INTERPRETED Kramer's translations according to Pie** . I was amazed that Pie clearly saw nothing wrong with Sitchin's elaborations while "interpreting" Kramer's translations! I did! Have no idea if Samuel Kramer is still alive.

** Lloyd Pie ALSO identified AMNON SITCHIN, Zecharia's brother, as most responsible for the astronomical details about the 12th Planet** . Amnon, with some background in Astronomy, had come up with "math" and specifics about the 12th Planet. Really gives one "confidence" about their entire 12th Planet story! And the Sitchin tale about gold eating, near "immortal" Anunnaki individuals living in the SAME physical bodies, for 300,000 or is it 450,000 years - or longer? Good God, imagine seeing the SAME face in your mirror for nearly half a million years!

(Hazel, aside... James Churchward wrote that later, greedy, corrupt Priesthoods in India and Egypt i** nvented tales that people can live physically for hundreds of years or even a thousand years**. If individuals would ** give the Priests ALL their money and follow their instructions** , the Priests would guarantee it! Of course when the individual died before time, ** the Priests said he had failed to follow their instructions**!

Even if Sitchin accurately interpreted the long life span "translations" about the Anunnaki, did any of the Anunnaki Priests, or whomever carved the tablets, INVENT impressive extended lifetime stories, like some Indian and Egyptian Priests later did? ** Just because things are carved on stone tablets doesn't insure parts of them are not fanciful inventions** . Our government, our media, some of our religious leaders and most political leaders regularly lie to us. Were the Sumerian "authors" possessed only of pure hearts and motives? More likely they were just like about everyone else throughout history! Ezra wrote the Old Testament 800 years after Moses died. How accurate was he? My cynicism is showing again.)

Heiser also upset Art bell with Heiser's his second book that demolishes the BIBLE CODE! Bell had two Bible Code authors on at least 4 times in the past. Bell was regularly impressed and fell over himself saying so. Along comes Heiser with an entire book providing evidence that the Bible Code is PHONY... very selective interpretations by its proponents. (The other website at top is for his book of evidence against the Bible Code)

Bell seemed so shell shocked by Heiser, he didn't keep Heiser on for the full 5 hours. ** I may be wrong, but I bet Heiser will NOT be called back as a future guest by Art Bell.** Bell was NOT pleased by what he heard from Heiser.

Anyway, Hazel, you may find Heiser's 2 books and 2 websites of interest about Sitchin and the Bible Code.

  • Dick Fojut

** Hazel's original Sitchin email follows..**.

Dear All, Here is an alternative interpretation of Zecharia Sitchin's theory.

Sitchin says; "the word, Nefilim, the name by which those extraordinary beings, the sons of the gods were known, means literally, '*  Those who have come down to earth from the heavens.'*

This automatically assumes 'the heavens ' is outer space. My understanding is that the seven (actually nine) heavens are alternate realities and dimensions; Channelling from the Council of Nine states:

  • 'Not really a dimension, a state of beingŠof consciousness, there are nine of* * them. Level Nine is pure, of great purity. Souls come from Level NineŠsouls are* * created here'.*
So the son's of the gods, fell not from the sky, but from a state of pure consciousness.
Sitchin claims, "people from that planet (Nibiru) came to Earth almost half a million years ago and did many of the things about which we read in the Bible."

They travelled from their planet to Earth and splashed down in the Persian Gulf. The Sumerians had immense knowledge. They were proficient in mathematics, astronomy, writing and, in many respects, their knowledge surpassed modern times.

They said, "All that we know was told to us by the Anunnaki."

The Father of the Annunaki was Anu, (Zeus, Llud, Odin, Ra, Jove, in other mythologies, usually represening the sun or sky) who resides in the remote *heavens,*     on the holy mountain. And to here, his sons returned during the deluge, taking Utnapishtim tooŠso by Sitchin's account they all flew off back to Nibiru.

But Gilgamesh set sail in a boat for the mountain at the end of the Earth, and found Utnapishtim, so he could not have been in some far off planet. He was in fact in the paradise at the estuary of the streams, these four rivers, the Gihon, Hiddikel, Pison and Euphrates originate in Eden (hollow earth) and converge at the polar opening, which is where the Annunaki came from, they were the gods of the underworld.

If the gods return with their planet every 3,600 years as Sitchin believes, and treat earthlings as genetic engineering subjects, or molest the women, why if they are capable of interplanetary flight in spacecraft would they require to wait till Nibiru was between Mars and Jupiter? They could come here at any time, and why go to great lengths to educate and civilize people they plan to enslave?

It is a comet that passes Earth on an eliptical orbit every 3,600 years and reverses the poles, causing deluge and conflagration. The gods return at this time from the *remote heavens*
of Anu, to restore civilization, and all fields of learning, to survivors. Then they allow mankind to develop, as they did in Sumeria and Central America, while they keep watch, from the distance. But the people continue to worship them and make offerings and sacrifices to them.


However, one of these gods was in conflict with the others, Enki (Seth, Loki, Mars, Sammael, Satan in the Hermetic tradition) it was he who caused Adam and Eve to be excluded from Eden, which meant they had to endure birth and death, in a lower frequency, material existence (the surface world.) Which is where we all are today. It was the duty of all Maya, through tests and initiation, to conquer death (the gods of the underworld) and so cease to be reincarnated but remain in the higher heavens. Achieving this Afterlife was the sole purpose of existence for Ancient Egyptians.

Hazel

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7

Jan,

> People have recieved inspiration and automatic writing, (like
> channelling) for centuries, many great composers and authors,
> felt their work was coming from unseen sources.

Therefore I said one has to judge by the results as these sources
were of quite various nature. The best inspiration comes from
Paramatma, the 'inner voice'.

I might point out that Aleister Crowely channelled a book, which was so
heinous in nature that it shocked even him when he read back the contents.
It concerned the human carnage to come, particularily victimising babies and
children.

> Why is religion taboo?

It's just off topic. Rather than debates over personal opinions
(esp. on such vague subjects like UFO with precious little hard
evidence similar to the one from Israel in 90') I'd like to see
some further HE evidence.

If Vedic culture came from Shambhala, (or Venus) then religion is
inextricably linked to hollow earth, likewise ancient mysteries and UfO's
are interconnected and always lead back to the holes at the poles.
Everything is relevant.

Hazel.

8

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's
Theory

Dick, Thanks for backing me up on this,
that's what I wanted to hear. But I'll be honest, I've never read
Sitchin's books although I'm aware of the gist of it and seen him
interviewed on Discovery (Discovery Channel loves to highlight
red-herrings or half-truths, to put us off the scent.)
But the mythology I've read clearly says
the Annunaki were seven gods of the underworld, so where did Nibiru
come from? The telfth planet according to Sitchin travels on an
eliptical orbit past Mars every 3,600 years, when astronomers
recently detected a comet, on this orbit, Sitchin says that proves
there must be a twelfth planet. I think his planet
*is *this comet and not the Annunaki returning, they never
went away....I go purely on gut feeling about a person or
their theories, and I am dubious about Sitchin's claims to
deciphering Sumerian Tablets. I've read the Bible Code, if it is
real, it implies a computer-like mind wrote it thousands of years
ago. I'm a bit sceptical. BTW, I love your scientific Churchward
theories, I find some of it quite complicated but it's details I need
to know and gives me a clearer understanding of electromagnetism, the
key to the workings of Earth. I'll check out what Mike Heisters got
to say and funnily enough, I've never been drawn to Art Bell either,
although he appears to have the same interests as me.
Hazel
Hazel,

Glad to add my two cents about Sitchin. If
you haven't read Sitchin, you probably haven't missed much. You might
find yourself being even MORE critical, like me.

About Churchward... I probably
COMPLICATE his material, clumsily using too many of my own words,
struggling to explain what he so easily explained in his books using
far less words. Just hoping to stimulate others to READ his stuff for
themselves and make an honest comparison with all they know. Then,
argue against his viewpoints where one finds major flaws and point
them out. Flaws he must have, though I haven't detected any major
ones so far.

But I remain convinced that IF an HE exists,
Churchward's geological tale of HOW Earth came to have a large
hollow, provides the ONLY reasonable explanation advanced
so far. Have you heard of any other?

I find great difficulty accepting the
Etidorhpa explanation that space dust collected on a spirit bubble
and formed the earth. That pat explanation seems to me to be
similarly as scientifically unlikely as Sitchin's fantasy
that the planet Marduk (name spelled right?) got blown apart,
one half became the asteroid belt, the other half somehow
(Sitchin never explains) miraculously "reformed" itself
to become our earth! That's geologically absurd, in my opinion.
But none of his admirers seem to question it out loud. Even those
admirers with scientific credentials.

About Sitchin again... There are
so many absurdities in Sitchin's tale. Or were the absurdities
written ON the original tablets by ancient Sumerian
"authors."?

If the Sun's rays and forces are
VITAL to the continuing existence and rotation of our earth
(as Cater and Churchward both contend) by what "other" mechanism
does Nibiru survive as a viable planet when so far away from the Sun
and our solar system at its widest swing? Does Nibiru operate by
DIFFFERENT physical laws than the other planets orbiting the Sun?
Apparently so. And why haven't the Sun's enormous magnetic
"pulling" forces long ago corrected Nibiru's ridiculous
elliptical orbit and brought it into a "normal" orbit like the
rest of our Sun's satellites? Makes no sense.

And why, just because it
supposedly takes Nibiru 3,600 years to orbit the Sun ONCE, do its
people "age" only one of our years? Not one logical reason why is
given. I cannot calculate how many total nights and days Nibiru
rotates on its axis during 3,600 (of our) years! An absolute
absurdity. Nonsense. That alone should have made Zecharia a
laughing stock.

···

You do live in Australia? My
wife is a former Aussie. Came over at the end of WW2. Was from
Melbourne. Still has relatives there. Her nieces and nephew
vacationed with us twice decades back.

  • Dick
9

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory

Dick,

About that Eitidorhpa description- this doesn't mean, for example, that centrifugal force wasn't involved, only that a spirit buble as a shell for the planet is part and parcel of the process. I don't see how the description is exclusive to more traditional HE ideas in this regard.

DD

···

I find great difficulty accepting the Etidorhpa explanation that space dust collected on a spirit bubble and formed the earth. That pat explanation seems to me to be similarly as scientifically unlikely as Sitchin's fantasy that the planet Marduk (name spelled right?) ** got blown apart, one half became the asteroid belt, the other half somehow** (Sitchin never explains) miraculously
"reformed" itself to become our earth! That's geologically absurd, in my opinion. But none of his admirers seem to question it out loud. Even those admirers with scientific credentials.

10

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory
Dick, I’m going to quote Sadek Adam, from ‘Hollow Earth Authentic’ on Sitchin, because he also find inconsistencies;
Sitchin gives a description in ‘Divine Encounters’ of a mummified pharaoh—we are here concerned with a living human, and it’s transformation to physical immortality. Cuneform tablets give graphic details of the humans journey. Sitchin apparently is not aware the earth is hollow with a thick crust, so he says: The journey is so realistic and geographically precise that one forgets it was supposed to be simulated. He also talks of spiralling corridors, hidden chambers, doors that open and close mysteriously, travel on a barge, walled circles, subterranean land of darkness, place of underground passages, and the mouth of the Earth, which is indeed the Gateway to Heaven. These are all descriptions of actual conditions within the earth’s shell, not symbolic, or simulations or a representation of the real thing—it is the real thing!

After all these physical descriptions the tablets mention the Celestial Ladder, an ascender which would carry the Pharaoh aloft, to reach the Firmament of Heaven. Sitchin mentions, the king has reached the imperishable star. So obviously the imperishable star is the smoky god, and the ascender is inside the hollow earth.

Here we have a description of a journey to Heaven, 800 miles away! This is what occurred in the Ascension of Enoch, Jesus and Muhammed. The Gate to Heaven (location of lost paradise) is the north polar opening, this is the close proximity of Heaven and Earth.

So what is Sichin doing in outer-space, when it’s all beneath his feet? I would gobble up Churchwards books, are they online?

Hazel (Scottish, living in London)

···

----- Original Message -----

Hazel,

Glad to add my two cents about Sitchin. If you haven't read Sitchin, you probably haven't missed much. You might find yourself being even MORE critical, like me.

About Churchward... ** I probably COMPLICATE his material,** clumsily using too many of my own words, struggling to explain what he so easily explained in his books using far less words. Just hoping to stimulate others to READ his stuff for themselves and make an honest comparison with all they know. Then, argue against his viewpoints where one finds major flaws and point them out. Flaws he must have, though I haven't detected any major ones so far.

But I remain convinced that IF an HE exists, Churchward's geological tale of HOW Earth came to have a large hollow, provides the ONLY reasonable explanation advanced so far . Have you heard of any other?

I find great difficulty accepting the Etidorhpa explanation that space dust collected on a spirit bubble and formed the earth. That pat explanation seems to me to be similarly as scientifically unlikely as Sitchin's fantasy that the planet Marduk (name spelled right?) ** got blown apart, one half became the asteroid belt, the other half somehow** (Sitchin never explains) miraculously
"reformed" itself to become our earth! That's geologically absurd, in my opinion. But none of his admirers seem to question it out loud. Even those admirers with scientific credentials.

About Sitchin again.. . There are so many absurdities in Sitchin's tale. Or were the absurdities written ON the original tablets by ancient Sumerian "authors."?

If the Sun's rays and forces are VITAL to the continuing existence and rotation of our earth (as Cater and Churchward both contend) by what "other" mechanism does Nibiru survive as a viable planet when so far away from the Sun and our solar system at its widest swing? Does Nibiru operate by DIFFFERENT physical laws than the other planets orbiting the Sun? Apparently so. And why haven't the Sun's enormous magnetic "pulling" forces long ago corrected Nibiru's ridiculous elliptical orbit and brought it into a "normal" orbit like the rest of our Sun's satellites? Makes no sense.

And why, just because it supposedly takes Nibiru 3,600 years to orbit the Sun ONCE, do its people "age" only one of our years? Not one logical reason why is given. I cannot calculate how many total nights and days Nibiru rotates on its axis during 3,600 (of our) years! An absolute absurdity. Nonsense. ** That alone should have made Zecharia a laughing stock.**

You do live in Australia ? My wife is a former Aussie. Came over at the end of WW2. Was from Melbourne. Still has relatives there. Her nieces and nephew vacationed with us twice decades back.

  • Dick

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11

Jan: I don't know if this was channelled for sure or not, but someone has a
book out now saying that Edger Cayce may have channelled the Urantia book,
Its been called the UFO blue book and it has beings from outer space almost
like the bible. Theres a lot of info in the book, but I haven't read it yet
and its very long. The author is listed as unknown, but now they think
Cayce did it. It would probably be one of the largest books ever channelled
if they are right. From: Ralph

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "JanJM" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory

> People have recieved inspiration and automatic writing, (like
> channelling) for centuries, many great composers and authors,
> felt their work was coming from unseen sources.

Therefore I said one has to judge by the results as these sources
were of quite various nature. The best inspiration comes from
Paramatma, the 'inner voice'.

> The Council of Nine teach only the highest humanitarian ideals.

>From the Vaishnava point of view they are rejected. Jiva in its
original position is free from all material designations like
human, animal, deva, demon etc. This is where Bhagavad-gita
starts. And Gita is just a primer.

You may read a comparison between Vedic tradition and New
Age at http://veda.harekrsna.cz/html/enc/newage.htm

> Why is religion taboo?

It's just off topic. Rather than debates over personal opinions
(esp. on such vague subjects like UFO with precious little hard
evidence similar to the one from Israel in 90') I'd like to see
some further HE evidence.

Jan

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12

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's
Theory

Jan: I don't know if this was
channelled for sure or not, but someone has a

book out now saying that Edger Cayce may have channelled the Urantia
book,

Its been called the UFO blue book and it has beings from outer space
almost

like the bible. Theres a lot of info in the book, but I haven't
read it yet

and its very long. The author is listed as unknown, but now
they think

Cayce did it. It would probably be one of the largest books
ever channelled

if they are right. From: Ralph

From: "JanJM" [email protected]

To: [email protected]

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow]
Sitchin's Theory
Ralph (from Dick Fojut)... Your Email was not addressed to me
but I must reply. I enthusiastically bought and read the URANTIA book
(completely) decades back. I've recently heard that same thing about
Cayce being the author.

I think that is ridiculous. If Cayce could have written a
book, I'm sure it would have been superior and different to what is
written in Urantia! You may disagree, but I found Urantia tedious,
often scientifically illogical, 2nd rate "science fiction"
reading, in my opinion. Worthy of sharing space at the bottom of one
of our bookshelves next to the OAHSPE Bible. If I now discover Cayce
was the author, I'll throw up! And begin to doubt most of what Cayce
said in his past life readings!

Let me know what you find out.

  • Dick Fojut
···

----- Original Message -----

13

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's
Theory

···

Following... Hazel wrote Dick more about SITCHIN...

Dick, I! Termsm going to quote Sadek
Adam, from 'Hollow Earth Authentic' on Sitchin, because he also
find inconsistencies;
Sitchin gives a description in 'Divine
Encounters' of a mummified pharaoh-we are here concerned with a
living human, and it's transformation to physical immortality.
Cuneform tablets give graphic details of the humans journey. Sitchin
apparently is not aware the earth is hollow with a thick crust, so he
says: The journey is so realistic and geographically precise that one
forgets it was supposed to be simulated. He also talks of spiralling
corridors, hidden chambers, doors that open and close mysteriously,
travel on a barge, walled circles, subterranean land of darkness,
place of underground passages, and the mouth of the Earth, which is
indeed the Gateway to Heaven. These are all descriptions of actualconditions within the earth's shell, not symbolic, or
simulations or a representation of the real thing-it is the
real thing!
After all these physical descriptions
the tablets mention the Celestial Ladder, an ascender which would
carry the Pharaoh aloft, to reach the Firmament of Heaven. Sitchin
mentions, the king has reached the imperishable star. So obviously
the imperishable star is the smoky god, and the ascender is inside
the hollow earth.
Here we have a description of a journey
to Heaven, 800 miles away! This is what occurred in the Ascension of
Enoch, Jesus and Muhammed. The Gate to Heaven (location of lost
paradise) is the north polar opening, this is the close proximity of
Heaven and Earth.
So what is Sichin doing in outer-space,
when it's all beneath his feet? I would gobble up Churchwards
books, are they online?
Hazel (Scottish, living in
London)

Hazel... Thanks for the
above additional Sitchin stuff. VERY interesting.

Churchward: No
online Churchward material. But his books (old or reprints) are
available at a few bookstores on line. Spearman in London
re-published his books in hardbound in the early 1970s (I bought 3
from them at that time).

His grandson owns
Churchward Steel Boats (Has website). Don't think he's into the
material, but not sure. He is prominent with an organization trying
to free Tibet from the Chinese. May have gotten into that from the
Colonel. (Tibet stuff on his website too). Forgotten the URL at
moment, but it should come up searching for Churchward Steel
Boat. Recall that Col Churchward ran Churchward Steel
International in America before and during WW1. His step
grand-daughter informed me that a special Steel he invented,
probably won the war during the latter stages. Almost impregnable to
German shells. (another hidden history!)

So when Churchward
asserted, for example, that he had made a careful geological study
of earth's ROCKS... and also that he understood HOW
this planet probably solidified from a nebula of hot elementary
gases, because of his personal experience cooling large molten
masses down to atmospheric temperatures, Churchward wrote from a
position of real and practical AUTHORITY.

How many of our current
physicists, astronomers and theorists (orthodox and unorthodox) today
possess similar practical knowledge about the physical
construction of this planet and the history of its rock layers?
Certainly not that famous String Theory, boastful "theoretical
physicist" Mischio Kaku.

And as much as I appreciate
and admire the theories of courageous mavericks like Tom Van
Flandrin, I think he, along with most other astronomers, physicists
and geologists, need a refresher course in "basic"
Churchward BEFORE they continue to tell us WHAT CAUSED and
CAUSES earthquakes, volcanos, mountain ranges and most catastrophic
changes in earth's past. I don't think they're completely off base,
but their reasoning "equations" have gaps, that if filled in with
details from Churchward, might give them (and us through them) **a
BETTER understanding of the world and cosmos we exist in. **

They all seem (to me) to reason MINUS the
special knowledge Churchward gained in a lifetime of world travel and
practical investigation. For 50 years, by ship, train, horse and on
foot (the hard way) he traced the general locations and paths
throughout the world of most of the great major subterranean GAS
BELT TUNNELS that between 15,000 and 12,000 years back, violently
shoved up our mountain ranges (and also blew out the formerly
isolated gas chambers that had long upheld the surfaces of MU and
Atlantis above the waters). Volcanos are the natural safety escape
valves for over-compressions of volcanic gases continuing to be
"worked out" of earth's crust by earth's great centrifugal
force through the networks of deep gas
belts.

(Speaking aside about CENTRIFUGAL
FORCE... Everyone, please read this and think about it!
I was astounded years back, when I discovered the world famous
astronomer JASTROW (in his book I have) assigned little importance to
centrifugal force in the scheme of things in the cosmos! He's not
alone. How often have you heard ANY of our orthodox and unorthodox
scientific pretenders and thinkers on radio or TV assigning any
importance to or even mentioning CENTRIFUGAL FORCE? Yet it is one
of the 4 great primary forces the Creator uses to MOVE all bodies and
elements in this universe. One of the "agents" carrying out the
will of the Creator in the cosmos. Leaving that out of ones reasoning
is a BIG "gap.")

Churchward made MAPS of these world
gas belts. In past years I personally updated several of them,
inserting more modern maps.

Most of our current crop of physicists,
geologists, astronomers, theoreticians and researchers (including
Cater, Lamprecht, Dean - and past Hollow Earth book writers)
apparently haven't even been aware such gas belt tunnels
exist! Yet lacking that awareness, they each still have
pretended to themselves to thoroughly understand present and past
GEOLOGICAL events on earth, pontificate about them - and through
extrapolation, pontificate about the construction and operation of
distant suns and bodies in space.

In my opinion, were most of these
otherwise brilliant individuals in possession of a fraction of
Churchward's now 70 years past, fundamental scientific awareness
about Earth and the "Cosmic Forces," I think most might change
their minds about some of the current ideas they hold. Churchward
was an incredible guy. One of the great UNrecognized minds of our
age. From soldier to mystic seeker and researcher to American Steel
manufacturer. Incredible story that should someday be told to
the world. Whoops, better get off my soap box!

  • Dick

P.S. Don't know why I got the idea you
were in Australia. My wife, by the way, is Scotch-Irish. One
of her ancestors administered an Australian prison. (Or so her
relatives like to think!)

And about Scotland, quite by
accident a year back researching my odd last name on the internet (I
thought it was one of a kind) I discovered that the official Director
of Antiquities of Scotland is a Dr. Noel Fojut. Doesn't sound
Scottish to me! As far as I know from my unknowing (now long
deceased) Father, during the American civil war, a FRENCHMAN married
into and bequeathed his name to a family of Poles. One of these days
I may contact Dr. Fojut out of curiosity.

14

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory
Dick, Isn't it peculiar how the scientists and antiquarians who did the most field work and hard graft, and demolished their critics, are utterly discredited in history and equated with quacks or eccentricity, like, Churchward, Reich, Velikovsky or Dayton Miller, while the frauds are hailed as genius.

P.S. Don't know why I got the idea you were in Australia. My wife, by the way, is Scotch-Irish. One of her ancestors administered an Australian prison. (Or so her relatives like to think!)

···

Are you sure the ancestor wasn't just in prison? (not wanting to stereo-type the Scots/Irish immigrants)

Hazel

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15

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's
Theory

Dick, Isn't it peculiar how the
scientists and antiquarians who did the most field work and hard
graft, and demolished their critics, are utterly discredited in
history and equated with quacks or eccentricity, like, Churchward,
Reich, Velikovsky or Dayton Miller, while the frauds are hailed
as genius.

Hazel... Right.

-Dick

P.S. Don't know
why I got the idea you were in Australia. My wife, by the way, is
Scotch-Irish. One of her ancestors administered an Australian
prison. (Or so her relatives like to think!)

Are you sure the ancestor wasn't just in prison?
(not wanting to stereo-type the Scots/Irish immigrants)
Hazel

Hazel... That's what I was hinting at!

  • Dick
16

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Etridorhpa's
Description

Dick,
About that Eitidorhpa
description- this doesn't mean, for example, that
centrifugal force wasn't involved, only that a spirit buble as a
shell for the planet is part and parcel of the process. I don't
see how the description is exclusive to more traditional HE
ideas in this regard.
DD

(2 subjects: "Spirit Bubbles" and
Van Flandrin causing me to "throw-up.")

Dean... I really find no "fault"
about a "spirit bubble" - or God, The Creator, positioning a
"spirit bubble" PATTERN in space for matter to form
around. Sounds logical and probable to me. I like the basic
idea. THAT certainly is also the implication of Churchward
describing a "centripetal force" (a vortex) collecting and
gathering together hot, elemental gases in space, then rough and
tumbling them into a spherical shape (preparatory for their cooling
and solidifying into the crust of this new world).

I'm sure you agree with me that:
FROM The ONE Great Primary "Force," (the Creator)
emanate His universal "agents," His SECONDARY -
specialized, motivated Forces: Centripetal, Centrifugal
(and Repellant), Magnetic (and Attracting) Forces, etc.
(Possibly even Cater's soft and hard "particles" and the
"Forces" the "particles" possess. I'm reconciling again.)
From the one Great Intelligent "Force" comes His secondary
"Forces." Generally agreed?

So the "spirit bubble" PATTERN
concept, I most certainly agree with. But I became disappointed
when the Etidorhpa guide followed that by explaining that "space
dust" collected on that bubble and (gradually) formed our earth.
Sorry, too simplistic. Not satisfying.

Afterall Dean, the Guide wasn't talking to a
child, but presumably, to a sharp "scientist" with challenging
questions on his mind. A questioner asking for PROOFS, for
scientifically based answers that make sense.

But let's be realistic, the "Guide" was
in the author's mind. A "simplistic" answer was all he thought
required. Maybe the writer desired to include CHILDREN among the
readers he hoped his book would reach and not put in complicating
details, that Children - and ordinary laymen readers, might have
difficulty grasping quickly.

···

Subject 2... As long as I
have your (and some list members') attention, get this! More
"throwing-up" on my part...

I wrote yesterday (to Hazel) that I respected
"courageous mavericks like TOM VAN FLANDRIN"...

I've just crossed off Van Flandrin from my
"respect" list after hearing him Sunday night on Whitney
Streiber's (formerly Art Bell's) "Dreamland" radio
interview! WHY?

Van Flandrin at first made his usual sense about
photographed evidence on Mars that NASA and orthodox astronomers have
been ignoring.

Then Van Flandrin changed the subject and
began pontificating "authoritatively" about Earth, other planets
and the Sun. Tom is no possible HE fan, like most orthodox
astronomers and geologists, he assigns earth a "CORE." (He
needs to read Pratt's online book.}

But what Van Flandrin said next
almost made me figuratively throw-up (again)!

Van Flandrin pointed out (as we have all heard)
that some of our solar system's planets (including earth) are
"RADIATING" outward MORE energy than the Sun is "RADIATING"
to them (without giving his explanation why. He left that a
mystery.). Okay. So what? Well, Van Flandrin apparently
thinks this "Radiation" coming from the Sun can be very
dangerous because of the following notion he has:

** If an excess of
"radiation" (energy) from the Sun accumulates inside a planet
(and can't get out), the planet may blow up. "THAT'S WHY PLANETS
EXPLODE!" Van Flandrin said.** (Good grief!)

Our otherwise brilliant maverick Van
Flandrin apparently is completely convinced that earth and other
planets receive ALL their "energy" from the Sun's
"radiation." AND if TOO MUCH is absorbed and retained inside
the planet, it may pop! (like the planet that supposedly became the
asteroid belt.) I was truly astounded, nearly
"threw-up." Van Flandrin is way off-base!
(Please tell Pratt.)

If ANYONE needs some classes in Churchward
101 (OR Cater 101), it is today's astronomer Tom Van Flandrin, in my
opinion!

**What Van Flandrin seems oblivious of
is: ** **"living," revolving bodies, like our earth, are
ALSO GENERATING Forces (or "energy"), though in lesser volume
than the great volume of output radiated from our Sun. **
Whether these earth Forces or "energy" are generated (and
regenerated) as Churchward contends (at a "Friction" line where
the hard cold outer crust grinds against a soft, molten layer
beneath), or in some different manner, clearly our planet -
and other rotating bodies - DO generate them! They exist and are
put to use in nature. General agreement on that point?

OF COURSE earth's body is "radiating"
energy outward.

(but "radiating" energy outward away from
earth into outer space, like Van Flandrin seems to also think,
I suspect he is in error.)

Van Flandrin seems unaware about the
following....

With the daily "help" of the Sun's
magnetic pulling rays, volumes of Earth's generated Forces (or
"energy" ) are drawn FROM her crust and "radiate" outward
throughout earth's entire atmosphere, saturating it. That is the
"radiation" instruments are measuring. Radiation coming out
of, "radiating" out of earth's crust. Whether
some of those earthly "radiations" also later escape earth's
atmospheric "envelope" into outer space is purely theoretical.
Van Flandrin and like minded are just speculating.

Nevertheless, every morning and
shortly beyond noon, with the help of the Sun's magnetic pulling
"rays," our atmosphere becomes saturated with this "radiated"
energy coming from earth's crustal "storehouse" (while earth's
crust itself remains saturated with volumes of similar
"energy.")

PLANETS ARE "SPONGES?"

Earth and revolving planets are not mere
"sponges" for the Sun's radiations as Van Flandrin appears
to assert. Incredibly, he does seem to think so, and also thinks
that an excess of Sun radiated energy accumulated in one of these
planetary "sponges" somehow becomes an explosive
"quantity." (No explanation why given Sunday night)
Van Flandrin also seems to me to be unable to distinguish any
differences between the energy "radiations" from the sun -
and energy accumulated (or generated) inside earth's body. All the
same kind of stuff to Tom. Just "energy" stuff, Van Flandrin
appears to think. (Mischio Kaku seems to consider "energy"
similarly. Just "energy.") Double Good grief !

Dean and list members, without doubt, some
specialized rays from the Sun penetrate into earth's crust, surely
well through the outer crust, into the hollows, as Cater instructs.
This we all agree about.

And Van Flandrin obviously also agrees
some penetration LIKE that must happen, to then accumulate what he
conceives might become a dangerous, "explosive" excess of those
sun "radiations" - that could ultimately cause a planet to
explode!" Wow!

Anyone agree with Van Flandrin's
current notion?

  • Dick Fojut
17

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Etridorhpa's Description

···

** So the "spirit bubble" PATTERN concept, I most certainly agree with** . But I became disappointed when the Etidorhpa guide followed that by explaining that "space dust" collected on that bubble and (gradually) formed our earth. Sorry, too simplistic. Not satisfying.

Afterall Dean, the Guide wasn't talking to a child, but presumably, to a sharp "scientist" with challenging questions on his mind. A questioner asking for PROOFS , for scientifically based answers that make sense.

But let's be realistic, the "Guide" was in the author's mind. A "simplistic" answer was all he thought required. Maybe the writer desired to include CHILDREN among the readers he hoped his book would reach and not put in complicating details, that Children - and ordinary laymen readers, might have difficulty grasping quickly.

  • Dick,
  • The Man, who accompanied The Guide, was a stonemason from the 1840s, not a sharp scientist, although he had dabbled in alchemy and had some idea of chemistry. I think that he just touched on the phenomenon with a simple explanation and moved on. I don't see it as being necesszarily incompatible with the other ideas about the creation of the planet.
  • More comments below.

** Subject 2... As long as I have your (and some list members') attention**, ** get this! More "throwing-up" on my part...**

I wrote yesterday (to Hazel) that I respected "courageous mavericks like TOM VAN FLANDRIN"...

** I've just crossed off Van Flandrin from my "respect" list** after hearing him Sunday night on Whitney Streiber's (formerly Art Bell's) "Dreamland" radio interview! WHY?

Van Flandrin at first made his usual sense about photographed evidence on Mars that NASA and orthodox astronomers have been ignoring.

Then Van Flandrin changed the subject and began pontificating "authoritatively" about Earth, other planets and the Sun. Tom is no possible HE fan, like most orthodox astronomers and geologists, ** he assigns earth a "CORE."** (He needs to read Pratt's online book.}

  • I am sorry to hear that van Flandern isn't further ahead in his thinking. I understand the logic of the hollow Earth arguments, and I am not even a scientist!

** But what Van Flandrin said next almost made me figuratively throw-up (again)!**

Van Flandrin pointed out (as we have all heard) that some of our solar system's planets (including earth) are "RADIATING" outward MORE energy than the Sun is "RADIATING" to them (without giving his explanation why. He left that a mystery.). Okay. So what? Well, Van Flandrin apparently thinks this "Radiation" coming from the Sun can be ** very dangerous** because of the following notion he has:

** If an excess of "radiation" (energy) from the Sun accumulates inside a planet (and can't get out), the planet may blow up. "THAT'S WHY PLANETS EXPLODE!" Van Flandrin said.** (Good grief!)

** Our otherwise brilliant maverick Van Flandrin apparently is completely convinced that earth and other planets receive ALL their "energy" from the Sun's "radiation.** " AND if TOO MUCH is absorbed and retained inside the planet, it may pop! (like the planet that supposedly became the asteroid belt.) I was truly astounded, nearly "threw-up." Van Flandrin is way off-base! (Please tell Pratt.)

If ANYONE needs some classes in Churchward 101 (OR Cater 101), it is today's astronomer Tom Van Flandrin, in my opinion!

  • It is hard for him to speak with authority in regards to geo processes if he doesn't even understand that the planet is hollow.

What Van Flandrin seems oblivious of is: **
** "living," revolving bodies, like our earth, are ALSO GENERATING Forces (or "energy"), though in lesser volume than the great volume of output radiated from our Sun. ** Whether these earth Forces or "energy" are generated (and regenerated) as Churchward contends (at a "Friction" line where the hard cold outer crust grinds against a soft, molten layer beneath), ** or in some different manner , clearly our planet - and other rotating bodies - DO generate them! They exist and are put to use in nature. General agreement on that point?

** OF COURSE earth's body is "radiating" energy outward**.

(but "radiating" energy outward away from earth into outer space , like Van Flandrin seems to also think, I suspect he is in error.)

** Van Flandrin seems unaware about the following....**

  • Dick- there is a lot he doesn't understand about subtle radiations.

Later,

Dean

With the daily "help" of the Sun's magnetic pulling rays, volumes of Earth's generated Forces (or "energy" ) are drawn FROM her crust and "radiate" outward throughout earth's entire atmosphere, saturating it. That is the "radiation" instruments are measuring. Radiation coming out of, "radiating" out of earth's crust. Whether some of those earthly "radiations" also later escape earth's atmospheric "envelope" into outer space is purely theoretical. Van Flandrin and like minded are just speculating.

Nevertheless, ** every morning and shortly beyond noon, with the help of the Sun's magnetic pulling "rays," our atmosphere becomes saturated with this "radiated" energy coming from earth's crustal "storehouse" (while earth's crust itself remains saturated with volumes of similar "energy.")**

PLANETS ARE "SPONGES?"

** Earth and revolving planets are not mere "sponges" for the Sun's radiations as Van Flandrin appears to assert.**
Incredibly, he does seem to think so, and also thinks that an excess of Sun radiated energy accumulated in one of these planetary "sponges" somehow
becomes an explosive "quantity." (No explanation why given Sunday night) Van Flandrin also seems to me to be unable to distinguish ** any differences** between the energy "radiations" from the sun - and energy accumulated (or generated) inside earth's body. All the same kind of stuff to Tom. Just "energy" stuff, Van Flandrin appears to think. (Mischio Kaku seems to consider "energy" similarly. Just "energy.") Double Good grief !

Dean and list members, without doubt, some specialized rays from the Sun penetrate into earth's crust, surely well through the outer crust, into the hollows, as Cater instructs. This we all agree about.

** And Van Flandrin obviously also agrees some penetration LIKE that must happen, to then accumulate what he conceives might become a dangerous, "explosive" excess of those sun "radiations" - that could ultimately cause a planet to explode!" Wow!**

Anyone agree with Van Flandrin's current notion?

  • Dick Fojut

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18

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory
Dick, I checked out Mike Heiser and he demolishes Sitchin. http://www.facadenovel.com/Genesis6.pdf I feel vindicated. Hazel

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Dick Fojut

To: [email protected]

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 5:46 AM

Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Sitchin's Theory

Hazel (from Dick Fojut) about your original Sitchin email below...

If you missed MIKE HEISER ** about Sitchi** n, on Art Bell a few Fridays back, check out Heiser's 2 websites following:

www.facadenovel.com

www.biblecodemyth.com

Here's the copy from Bell's website about Heiser:

Guest: Mike Heiser

** Mike Heiser is currently writing his Ph.D. dissertation titled "Divine Beings in Jewish Literature Written Between the Old and New Testament Periods." He is an expert on angels and divine beings in ancient Semitic texts. Besides his formal academic training, Mike has had a life-long interest in the paranormal, particularly the UFO phenomenon. He is uniquely qualified to write on the intersection of Ufology with ancient texts and mainstream western religions.**

Hazel... We tuned in Heiser a few weeks back knowing nothing about him. We were quite surprised to find out he has a book out, the FACADE, demolishing Sitchin. It seems Heiser can also read the Sumerian tablets. He claimed to Art Bell that though Sitchin presents a lot of good historical details in his books, but when Sitchin "translated" the tablets, Heiser stated that Sitchin "INVENTS, " the on-air "kind" label Heiser plastered on Sitchin. Heiser rattled off several specifics to Art Bell where Sitchin "invented" entirely different translations of various tablets that Heiser, had also read, translated and realized ** Sitchin was completely wrong.** Apparently Heiser's book (which I haven't bought) is full of Sitchin "inventions" that Heiser has detected. So important a subject to Heiser, he wrote an entire book.

Bell was astounded and upset. Bell had Sitchin, and several Sitchin devotees as guests several times in the past. Bell finally said (sounding only half serious) he'd like to get Sitchin and Heiser on together to debate . (Heiser quickly agreed - but it seems unlikely to me that Sitchin would ever appear with a guy who's exposed his "invented" interpretations of the Sumerian tablets.

Obviously I'm not a Sitchin fan . Many years back I read his first four books, found several of his claims absurd, and was very suspicious Sitchin had "invented" much about the Anunaki to fit Sitchin's own private notions. Suspicious but without evidence until Heiser's recent guest appearance on Art Bell. Afterall, Sitchin, who years earlier had been a former reporter in Tel Aviv, via Russia (just like Velikovsky a decade before), was a great Sumerian scholar. Sitchin personally translated all the tablets, didn't he?

Apparently NOT according to LLOYD PIE
(one of the devout Sitchin admirers who has written his own Anunaki books in support of Zecharia.)

Pie, the first week of Dec. 1997, on Laura Lee's program, came right out and said ** MOST of the Sumerian tablet translations were done not by Sitchin, but by SAMUEL KRAMER** (whose name was mentioned as one of many source references in Sitchin's first book , without comment).

** Sitchin INTERPRETED Kramer's translations according to Pie** . I was amazed that Pie clearly saw nothing wrong with Sitchin's elaborations while "interpreting" Kramer's translations! I did! Have no idea if Samuel Kramer is still alive.

** Lloyd Pie ALSO identified AMNON SITCHIN, Zecharia's brother, as most responsible for the astronomical details about the 12th Planet** . Amnon, with some background in Astronomy, had come up with "math" and specifics about the 12th Planet. Really gives one "confidence" about their entire 12th Planet story! And the Sitchin tale about gold eating, near "immortal" Anunnaki individuals living in the SAME physical bodies, for 300,000 or is it 450,000 years - or longer? Good God, imagine seeing the SAME face in your mirror for nearly half a million years!

(Hazel, aside... James Churchward wrote that later, greedy, corrupt Priesthoods in India and Egypt i** nvented tales that people can live physically for hundreds of years or even a thousand years**. If individuals would ** give the Priests ALL their money and follow their instructions** , the Priests would guarantee it! Of course when the individual died before time, ** the Priests said he had failed to follow their instructions**!

Even if Sitchin accurately interpreted the long life span "translations" about the Anunnaki, did any of the Anunnaki Priests, or whomever carved the tablets, INVENT impressive extended lifetime stories, like some Indian and Egyptian Priests later did? ** Just because things are carved on stone tablets doesn't insure parts of them are not fanciful inventions** . Our government, our media, some of our religious leaders and most political leaders regularly lie to us. Were the Sumerian "authors" possessed only of pure hearts and motives? More likely they were just like about everyone else throughout history! Ezra wrote the Old Testament 800 years after Moses died. How accurate was he? My cynicism is showing again.)

Heiser also upset Art bell with Heiser's his second book that demolishes the BIBLE CODE! Bell had two Bible Code authors on at least 4 times in the past. Bell was regularly impressed and fell over himself saying so. Along comes Heiser with an entire book providing evidence that the Bible Code is PHONY... very selective interpretations by its proponents. (The other website at top is for his book of evidence against the Bible Code)

Bell seemed so shell shocked by Heiser, he didn't keep Heiser on for the full 5 hours. ** I may be wrong, but I bet Heiser will NOT be called back as a future guest by Art Bell.** Bell was NOT pleased by what he heard from Heiser.

Anyway, Hazel, you may find Heiser's 2 books and 2 websites of interest about Sitchin and the Bible Code.

  • Dick Fojut

** Hazel's original Sitchin email follows..**.

Dear All, Here is an alternative interpretation of Zecharia Sitchin's theory.

Sitchin says; "the word, Nefilim, the name by which those extraordinary beings, the sons of the gods were known, means literally, '*  Those who have come down to earth from the heavens.'*

This automatically assumes 'the heavens ' is outer space. My understanding is that the seven (actually nine) heavens are alternate realities and dimensions; Channelling from the Council of Nine states:

  • 'Not really a dimension, a state of beingŠof consciousness, there are nine of* * them. Level Nine is pure, of great purity. Souls come from Level NineŠsouls are* * created here'.*
So the son's of the gods, fell not from the sky, but from a state of pure consciousness.
Sitchin claims, "people from that planet (Nibiru) came to Earth almost half a million years ago and did many of the things about which we read in the Bible."

They travelled from their planet to Earth and splashed down in the Persian Gulf. The Sumerians had immense knowledge. They were proficient in mathematics, astronomy, writing and, in many respects, their knowledge surpassed modern times.

They said, "All that we know was told to us by the Anunnaki."

The Father of the Annunaki was Anu, (Zeus, Llud, Odin, Ra, Jove, in other mythologies, usually represening the sun or sky) who resides in the remote *heavens,*     on the holy mountain. And to here, his sons returned during the deluge, taking Utnapishtim tooŠso by Sitchin's account they all flew off back to Nibiru.

But Gilgamesh set sail in a boat for the mountain at the end of the Earth, and found Utnapishtim, so he could not have been in some far off planet. He was in fact in the paradise at the estuary of the streams, these four rivers, the Gihon, Hiddikel, Pison and Euphrates originate in Eden (hollow earth) and converge at the polar opening, which is where the Annunaki came from, they were the gods of the underworld.

If the gods return with their planet every 3,600 years as Sitchin believes, and treat earthlings as genetic engineering subjects, or molest the women, why if they are capable of interplanetary flight in spacecraft would they require to wait till Nibiru was between Mars and Jupiter? They could come here at any time, and why go to great lengths to educate and civilize people they plan to enslave?

It is a comet that passes Earth on an eliptical orbit every 3,600 years and reverses the poles, causing deluge and conflagration. The gods return at this time from the *remote heavens*
of Anu, to restore civilization, and all fields of learning, to survivors. Then they allow mankind to develop, as they did in Sumeria and Central America, while they keep watch, from the distance. But the people continue to worship them and make offerings and sacrifices to them.


However, one of these gods was in conflict with the others, Enki (Seth, Loki, Mars, Sammael, Satan in the Hermetic tradition) it was he who caused Adam and Eve to be excluded from Eden, which meant they had to endure birth and death, in a lower frequency, material existence (the surface world.) Which is where we all are today. It was the duty of all Maya, through tests and initiation, to conquer death (the gods of the underworld) and so cease to be reincarnated but remain in the higher heavens. Achieving this Afterlife was the sole purpose of existence for Ancient Egyptians.

Hazel

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