J.R.R. Tolkien

From Mike Mott's book, Caverns, Cauldrons and Concealed Creatures:
http://www.hiddenmysteries.com/cartwebtv/af/hm01/index0.html

5. J.R.R. Tolkien.

Another British author whose work contains "cavern-world" themes is J.R.R.
Tolkien. Like MacDonald, he drew on Norse, Germanic, and Celtic folk and
mythic traditions for much of his cosmology. His "orcs," or goblins, are
essentially the "dark elves" and trolls of Scandinavian myth, and he also
took his version of the dwarves from the same folk traditions. In Norse
myth, there seem to be two camps of dwarves, one dark, swarthy, and hostile
(like Andvardi / Alberich), the other reclusive, but not so nasty. Tolkien's
"dwerrows" or dwarves fall into the latter category. His "elves" are similar
to the Scandinavian variety, but actually more closely resemble "the gentry"
of Ireland, the aristocratic Tuatha de Danaan. Like the Danaan, they also
exhibit idealized "Aryan" or "Nordic" attributes. Deep mountain tunnels and
hidden cavern palaces are the haunts of orcs, elves, and dwarves alike.

He also made reference to the "mound folk, " in this case the undead
(similar to Scandinavian "draugs" or revenants), and to "trolls," who, like
their Norse counterparts, cannot stand the light of day. His hill-burrowing
hobbits were modeled in some respects after both the 'trooping faeries" of
the British Isles, and the "solitary faeries" such as leprechauns and
cluricauns (see the in-depth works of Lady Gregory, Lady Wilde, and
Katherine Briggs, on the "faerie" or fairy topic), and the brownies (who
also have hairy feet like hobbits--and hairy hides in general).

His orcs in particular are generally reptilian in appearance, yet humanoid,
and "Gollum," a hobbit who has been horribly mutated by the "radiation" of
the One Ring, is definitely amphibian or reptilian in aspect. Here is an
echo of Alberich again, in Gollum's lust for the ring, and here also is the
hint of "technology," i.e., ancient and mysterious magic, which can
genetically alter living beings for evil or unknown purposes. One
side-effect of the ring is the extreme prolongation of Gollum's lifespan
(another underworld "secret," that of immortality, as in the story of
Gilgamesh and Enkidu). Throw in cavern-dwelling dragons guarding "treasure,"
(i.e., secret knowledge), and the archetypal symbolism is complete and in
fact predictable. He uses all of the aforementioned underworld themes in his
books The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and The Silmarillion (all
published in the U.S. by Houghton Mifflin Co.

Since Tlokien " drew " on tradition, perhaps we can learn about the
inhabitants of these cavern worlds by reading him. I think that I am going
to get into Tolkien. I am keen on understanding those worlds.

NOT-THAT-I-WANT-TO-VISIT-THEM!

Posted by Dharma/Dean

Dean,

Tolkien was born in South Africa and it is only through his Rhodes
scholarship that he ended up at Oxford. His membership of the same Oxford
secret society as Carroll, should make us wonder what books these men were
reading that the rest of the public hasn't had access to. I believe the
coincidence is too extraordinary that both writers gave such strong hints of
HE worlds. They, Jules Verne and co seem all to have been inspired by the
same source. From this "coincidence" of thought and detail we can only
deduce HE is real and there exists a library of knowledge attesting to this.

There will probably come a day when we reclaim the fairytales we tell
children for our own serious study.

Nikki

···

----- Original Message -----
From: Dean De Lucia <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:04 AM
Subject: [allplanets-hollow] J.R.R. Tolkien

>From Mike Mott's book, Caverns, Cauldrons and Concealed Creatures:
http://www.hiddenmysteries.com/cartwebtv/af/hm01/index0.html

5. J.R.R. Tolkien.

Another British author whose work contains "cavern-world" themes is J.R.R.
Tolkien. Like MacDonald, he drew on Norse, Germanic, and Celtic folk and
mythic traditions for much of his cosmology. His "orcs," or goblins, are
essentially the "dark elves" and trolls of Scandinavian myth, and he also
took his version of the dwarves from the same folk traditions. In Norse
myth, there seem to be two camps of dwarves, one dark, swarthy, and

hostile

(like Andvardi / Alberich), the other reclusive, but not so nasty.

Tolkien's

"dwerrows" or dwarves fall into the latter category. His "elves" are

similar

to the Scandinavian variety, but actually more closely resemble "the

gentry"

of Ireland, the aristocratic Tuatha de Danaan. Like the Danaan, they also
exhibit idealized "Aryan" or "Nordic" attributes. Deep mountain tunnels

and

hidden cavern palaces are the haunts of orcs, elves, and dwarves alike.

He also made reference to the "mound folk, " in this case the undead
(similar to Scandinavian "draugs" or revenants), and to "trolls," who,

like

their Norse counterparts, cannot stand the light of day. His

hill-burrowing

hobbits were modeled in some respects after both the 'trooping faeries" of
the British Isles, and the "solitary faeries" such as leprechauns and
cluricauns (see the in-depth works of Lady Gregory, Lady Wilde, and
Katherine Briggs, on the "faerie" or fairy topic), and the brownies (who
also have hairy feet like hobbits--and hairy hides in general).

His orcs in particular are generally reptilian in appearance, yet

humanoid,

and "Gollum," a hobbit who has been horribly mutated by the "radiation" of
the One Ring, is definitely amphibian or reptilian in aspect. Here is an
echo of Alberich again, in Gollum's lust for the ring, and here also is

the

hint of "technology," i.e., ancient and mysterious magic, which can
genetically alter living beings for evil or unknown purposes. One
side-effect of the ring is the extreme prolongation of Gollum's lifespan
(another underworld "secret," that of immortality, as in the story of
Gilgamesh and Enkidu). Throw in cavern-dwelling dragons guarding

"treasure,"

(i.e., secret knowledge), and the archetypal symbolism is complete and in
fact predictable. He uses all of the aforementioned underworld themes in

his

books The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, and The Silmarillion (all
published in the U.S. by Houghton Mifflin Co.

Since Tlokien " drew " on tradition, perhaps we can learn about the
inhabitants of these cavern worlds by reading him. I think that I am going
to get into Tolkien. I am keen on understanding those worlds.

NOT-THAT-I-WANT-TO-VISIT-THEM!

Posted by Dharma/Dean

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--- In allplanets-hollow@y..., "Nikki" <njhill@n...> wrote:

Dean,

Tolkien was born in South Africa and it is only through his

Rhodes

scholarship that he ended up at Oxford. His membership of the

same Oxford

secret society as Carroll, should make us wonder what books

these men were

reading that the rest of the public hasn't had access to.

Tolkien's cavern-world (not hollow earth) source material or
inspiration is well-known: British Isle fairy-stories, Norse and
Icelandic Sagas, Old English and Anglo-Saxon epics like
Beowulf, Norse mythology, Scandinavian folklore, and so on.

We do in fact have access to all of it, or most of it. Several
excellent biographies of Tolkien lay it all out for us in terms of his
literary influences.

There will probably come a day when we reclaim the fairytales

we tell

children for our own serious study.

And this is what CAVERNS, CAULDRONS, AND CONCEALED
CREATURES is really all about. The answers to many mysteries
may have been about us, to be seen and studied, all along.

--Mike

Mike,

You're right. I just realised what a contradictory statement I made. And
stupid me was obssessed by those same ancient fairytales as a child. What we
sometimes imagine is out of reach is probably under our noses all the time.

I just wish that one of those respected authors had spoken publicly about
their HE convictions (if they held them!) so that the world would have taken
"fantasy" fiction more seriously earlier on.

Nikki

···

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 12:37 AM
Subject: [allplanets-hollow] Re: J.R.R. Tolkien

--- In allplanets-hollow@y..., "Nikki" <njhill@n...> wrote:
> Dean,
>
> Tolkien was born in South Africa and it is only through his
Rhodes
> scholarship that he ended up at Oxford. His membership of the
same Oxford
> secret society as Carroll, should make us wonder what books
these men were
> reading that the rest of the public hasn't had access to.
>

Tolkien's cavern-world (not hollow earth) source material or
inspiration is well-known: British Isle fairy-stories, Norse and
Icelandic Sagas, Old English and Anglo-Saxon epics like
Beowulf, Norse mythology, Scandinavian folklore, and so on.

We do in fact have access to all of it, or most of it. Several
excellent biographies of Tolkien lay it all out for us in terms of his
literary influences.

> There will probably come a day when we reclaim the fairytales
we tell
> children for our own serious study.
>

And this is what CAVERNS, CAULDRONS, AND CONCEALED
CREATURES is really all about. The answers to many mysteries
may have been about us, to be seen and studied, all along.

--Mike

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos