Evidence of Civilization on Venus

ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW Yahoo Group (Old Posts)
#1

http://www.newage.com.au/ufo/venus.html

#2

Ralph,

I found the following on that site which talked about evidence for
civilization on Venus;

" It is scientifically possible for material plane beings to live in
an atmosphere on another planet, that is too hot or chemically fatal
to Earth humans, by constructing underground air-conditioned bases or
cities protected from the elements on the surface. It is also
feasible to create air---conditioned domes on the surface of other
planets that have artificial atmospheres exactly like on Earth, and

American scientists admit they already have the technology and plans
to create these bases on Mars and our Moon. Therefore
extraterrestrials with the superior technology to create disc--shaped
U.F.O.s, that are detailed in dozens of photos and documents in the
U.S. Air Force released Project Bluebook files, could logically
possess the advanced science to create such bases on the surface of
the planet Venus.

The physicists William Plummer and John Strong stated that Venus may
have large areas of bearable temperatures. The regions near the
Venusian north and south poles would be much cooler than the areas
reportedly monitored by space probes. Furthermore, according to
Professor Alexander Lebedinsky, in the Soviet Union, in data
suppressed by the United States Pentagon complex, the usual surface
temperature of much of Venus must be about 110 degrees Fahrenheit,
even though "radio---electric" measurements indicated 700 or more
degrees. Similar observations can be made on the relatively COOL
surfaces of gas tubes used in neon signs, because the radio--electric
equivalent of those tubes is also several thousand degrees!"

Ralph,

The truth is that I seriously doubt that Venus has the temperatures
which they ascribe to it. The Venera Nine orbiter supposedly sent a
lander onto the surface of Venus by parachute, so how could the
atmosphere have a temperature of 900* F?

And there is supposed to be heavy amounts of ammonia in the
atmosphere. With such temperatures, the surface, mixing with amonia
deposited from the atmosphere, would be melted and blob-like by now.

Really, I think that we can assume that temperatures are not an issue.

Dharma/Dean

#3

Ralph,

The truth is that I seriously doubt that Venus has the temperatures
which they ascribe to it. The Venera Nine orbiter supposedly sent a
lander onto the surface of Venus by parachute, so how could the
atmosphere have a temperature of 900* F?

And there is supposed to be heavy amounts of ammonia in the
atmosphere. With such temperatures, the surface, mixing with amonia
deposited from the atmosphere, would be melted and blob-like by now.

I meant to say sulfuric acid.

DD

···

Really, I think that we can assume that temperatures are not an issue.

Dharma/Dean

#4

Members-

Here are some comments from Joseph H. Cater in Chapter 15 of The Ultimate
Reality. He explains how the floods could have been caused, how the cloud
canopy- which he calls mantle, fell- and how the orbit of the Earth could
have changed.

The idea behind his " levitation beam " is that it would simply be a beam
consisting of the gravity inducing frequency which is emitted from some of
those mother ship type of UFOs. the increase of the gravity-inducing charge
thus absorbed by the Earth's shell would shrink the radius of the Earth's
orbit. It would also and increase the amount of gravity, which would have a
stunting and stupifying effect on surface world inhabitants, as well as
reducing the duration of life.

Cavern worlds could be collapsed this way due to the excess acumulation of
gravity within. This thye of UFO interference may account for the legend of
Atlantis, and could account for the Gulf of Mexico collapse at one point.

As always, this is just a tidbit, but read on, it is good food for thought.

Cater:

" It is more than likely that giant UFOs have been deeply involved in
notable events of the past which have never been explained. For example, the
great flood of Noah's day seems to defy all the rules of elementary physics
and common sense. It was supposed to have been produced by a rain that
pelted the earth for 40 days and nights. How could such a rain cover entire
mountain ranges? The hardest rain on record, going continuously for 40 days
and nights, could not account for more than about 200 feet of water. Yet
this flood covered Mt. Ararat, which rises three miles above the surrounding
country. In any event, where would all the water come from that could
produce a violent rainstorm lasting for 40 days? Interestingly enough,
records kept by other peoples on other parts of the globe mention a similar
flood, and geological evidence confirms it. Rain could account for only, a
small percentage of the water involved in the flood. Where did this extra
water come from and where did it go after it receded?

The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation beams that can move
planets from one place to another and to different orbits. A levitating beam
or beams of sufficient magnitude to move the earth to a different orbit
would displace large portions of the oceans, causing land masses to be
inundated. After the moving process was completed, the displaced oceans
would return to their former positions.

No doubt prior to the flood the earth was in a different orbit, in full view
of the binary sun, and perhaps closer to the sun than it is now. Its surface
would be protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case with the
planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this mantle
of water vapor quickly condensed as rain."

http://www.healthresearchbooks.com/Authors/joseph_cater.htm

Posted by Dharma/Dean

#5

hi i'm new here. i'm 21 and live in australia. here goes!

i think you missed the bit where it says "the fountains of the deep were broken up". this seems to say that vast amounts of water rose up from under the earth's surface and this is probably what accounted for most of the sea level rise.

Paul

Dean De Lucia wrote:

···

Members-

Here are some comments from Joseph H. Cater in Chapter 15 of The Ultimate
Reality. He explains how the floods could have been caused, how the cloud
canopy- which he calls mantle, fell- and how the orbit of the Earth could
have changed.

The idea behind his " levitation beam " is that it would simply be a beam
consisting of the gravity inducing frequency which is emitted from some of
those mother ship type of UFOs. the increase of the gravity-inducing charge
thus absorbed by the Earth's shell would shrink the radius of the Earth's
orbit. It would also and increase the amount of gravity, which would have a
stunting and stupifying effect on surface world inhabitants, as well as
reducing the duration of life.

Cavern worlds could be collapsed this way due to the excess acumulation of
gravity within. This thye of UFO interference may account for the legend of
Atlantis, and could account for the Gulf of Mexico collapse at one point.

As always, this is just a tidbit, but read on, it is good food for thought.

Cater:

" It is more than likely that giant UFOs have been deeply involved in
notable events of the past which have never been explained. For example, the
great flood of Noah's day seems to defy all the rules of elementary physics
and common sense. It was supposed to have been produced by a rain that
pelted the earth for 40 days and nights. How could such a rain cover entire
mountain ranges? The hardest rain on record, going continuously for 40 days
and nights, could not account for more than about 200 feet of water. Yet
this flood covered Mt. Ararat, which rises three miles above the surrounding
country. In any event, where would all the water come from that could
produce a violent rainstorm lasting for 40 days? Interestingly enough,
records kept by other peoples on other parts of the globe mention a similar
flood, and geological evidence confirms it. Rain could account for only, a
small percentage of the water involved in the flood. Where did this extra
water come from and where did it go after it receded?

The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation beams that can move
planets from one place to another and to different orbits. A levitating beam
or beams of sufficient magnitude to move the earth to a different orbit
would displace large portions of the oceans, causing land masses to be
inundated. After the moving process was completed, the displaced oceans
would return to their former positions.

No doubt prior to the flood the earth was in a different orbit, in full view
of the binary sun, and perhaps closer to the sun than it is now. Its surface
would be protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case with the
planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this mantle
of water vapor quickly condensed as rain."

http://www.healthresearchbooks.com/Authors/joseph_cater.htm

Posted by Dharma/Dean

#6

hi i'm new here. i'm 21 and live in australia. here goes!

i think you missed the bit where it says "the fountains of the deep were

broken up". this seems to say that vast amounts of water rose up from under
the earth's surface and this is probably what accounted for most of the sea
level rise.

Paul

Paul,

Mr. Cater seems to be suggesting a jostling as the planet moved in to a
closer orbit.

" A levitating beam or beams of sufficient magnitude to move the earth to a
different orbit
would displace large portions of the oceans, causing land masses to be
inundated. "

By levitating beams he seems to be refering to beams or radiations which
would increase the gravity charge within the Earth's crust. Mr. Cater
presents gravity as an electromagnetic radiation.

Is there some other part of his book where he speaks of " fountains of the
deep?"

It is late on the East coast of Brazil. Good night for now, Paul, and
welcome to the list!

Dharma/Dean

Dean De Lucia wrote:
>
> Members-
>
> Here are some comments from Joseph H. Cater in Chapter 15 of The

Ultimate

> Reality. He explains how the floods could have been caused, how the

cloud

> canopy- which he calls mantle, fell- and how the orbit of the Earth

could

> have changed.
>
> The idea behind his " levitation beam " is that it would simply be a

beam

> consisting of the gravity inducing frequency which is emitted from some

of

> those mother ship type of UFOs. the increase of the gravity-inducing

charge

> thus absorbed by the Earth's shell would shrink the radius of the

Earth's

> orbit. It would also and increase the amount of gravity, which would

have a

> stunting and stupifying effect on surface world inhabitants, as well as
> reducing the duration of life.
>
> Cavern worlds could be collapsed this way due to the excess acumulation

of

> gravity within. This thye of UFO interference may account for the legend

of

> Atlantis, and could account for the Gulf of Mexico collapse at one

point.

>
> As always, this is just a tidbit, but read on, it is good food for

thought.

>
> Cater:
>
> " It is more than likely that giant UFOs have been deeply involved in
> notable events of the past which have never been explained. For example,

the

> great flood of Noah's day seems to defy all the rules of elementary

physics

> and common sense. It was supposed to have been produced by a rain that
> pelted the earth for 40 days and nights. How could such a rain cover

entire

> mountain ranges? The hardest rain on record, going continuously for 40

days

> and nights, could not account for more than about 200 feet of water. Yet
> this flood covered Mt. Ararat, which rises three miles above the

surrounding

> country. In any event, where would all the water come from that could
> produce a violent rainstorm lasting for 40 days? Interestingly enough,
> records kept by other peoples on other parts of the globe mention a

similar

> flood, and geological evidence confirms it. Rain could account for only,

a

> small percentage of the water involved in the flood. Where did this

extra

> water come from and where did it go after it receded?
>
> The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation beams that can move
> planets from one place to another and to different orbits. A levitating

beam

> or beams of sufficient magnitude to move the earth to a different orbit
> would displace large portions of the oceans, causing land masses to be
> inundated. After the moving process was completed, the displaced oceans
> would return to their former positions.
>
> No doubt prior to the flood the earth was in a different orbit, in full

view

> of the binary sun, and perhaps closer to the sun than it is now. Its

surface

> would be protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case with

the

> planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this

mantle

···

Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Cloud canopies collapsed by gravity beams

> of water vapor quickly condensed as rain."
>
> http://www.healthresearchbooks.com/Authors/joseph_cater.htm
>
> Posted by Dharma/Dean

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#7

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Cloud canopies collapsed
by gr
(From Dick) Dean... From below,
Cater says: "The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation
beams that can move planets from one place to another and to
different orbits."

I cannot kindly comment about the
above (and the rest of what Cater wrote below) "giant
spaceships" moving earth with "levitation beams" is
science-fiction fantasy, an imaginative invention in Cater's
mind. His opinion.

What are Cater's SOLID scientific
real-world PROOFS to support his idea about spaceships and levitation
beams? If he provides such, why haven't you included them? He doesn't
state his ideas as a "possibility," or his "theory," he
states his ideas as FACT, the "only answer" to the biblical
flood, so he certainly should provide us some reasonable
evidence.

And while on Cater's ideas, you
mentioned earlier that Cater says our visible Sun is a BINARY, with
the other binary Sun hidden from our view on the opposite side of our
visible Sun. What are Cater's PROOFS, his EVIDENCE that such a 2nd
Sun exists? Or is that another of his ideas like the giant spaceships
with levitation beams?

I recently posted you Thomas Gold's
"theory" (on Col. Prouty's website) that GASES and vast pools of
oil (below fossil layers - a fact) came with the Earth at its birth.
Churchward's description of how the earth's crust support Gold's
theory...and Gold's theory gives general support to Churchward's. But
BOTH men provide a lot of real world EVIDENCE to support their
theories.

Cater, unless you have failed to
include his evidence, provides nothing to prove his spaceships,
levitation beams and binary sun viewpoints. Please provide them for
us if they exist. - Dick

···

Members-

Here are some comments from Joseph H. Cater in Chapter 15 of
The Ultimate

Reality. He explains how the floods could have been caused, how the
cloud

canopy- which he calls mantle, fell- and how the orbit of the Earth
could

have changed.

The idea behind his " levitation beam " is that it would
simply be a beam

consisting of the gravity inducing frequency which is emitted from
some of

those mother ship type of UFOs. the increase of the gravity-inducing
charge

thus absorbed by the Earth's shell would shrink the radius of the
Earth's

orbit. It would also and increase the amount of gravity, which would
have a

stunting and stupifying effect on surface world inhabitants, as well
as

reducing the duration of life.

Cavern worlds could be collapsed this way due to the excess
acumulation of

gravity within. This thye of UFO interference may account for the
legend of

Atlantis, and could account for the Gulf of Mexico collapse at one
point.

As always, this is just a tidbit, but read on, it is good food for
thought.
Cater:

" It is more than likely that giant UFOs have been deeply
involved in

notable events of the past which have never been explained. For
example, the

great flood of Noah's day seems to defy all the rules of elementary
physics

and common sense. It was supposed to have been produced by a rain
that

pelted the earth for 40 days and nights. How could such a rain cover
entire

mountain ranges? The hardest rain on record, going continuously for
40 days

and nights, could not account for more than about 200 feet of water.
Yet

this flood covered Mt. Ararat, which rises three miles above the
surrounding

country. In any event, where would all the water come from that
could

produce a violent rainstorm lasting for 40 days? Interestingly
enough,

records kept by other peoples on other parts of the globe mention a
similar

flood, and geological evidence confirms it. Rain could account for
only, a

small percentage of the water involved in the flood. Where did this
extra

water come from and where did it go after it receded?
The only answer is giant spaceships,
with levitation beams that can move
planets from one place to another and to
different orbits. A levitating beam

or beams of sufficient magnitude to move the earth to a different
orbit
would displace large portions of the
oceans, causing land masses to be

inundated. After the moving process was completed, the displaced
oceans

would return to their former positions.

No doubt prior to the flood the earth was in a different orbit, in
full view

of the binary sun, and perhaps closer to the sun than it is now. Its
surface

would be protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case
with the

planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this
mantle

of water vapor quickly condensed as rain."

http://www.healthresearchbooks.com/Authors/joseph_cater.htm

Posted by Dharma/Dean

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1 Like
Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty: Oil is an abiotic mineral - NOT a "fossil" fuel
#8

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Cloud canopies collapsed by gr

···

Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Cloud canopies collapsed by gravity beams

(From Dick) Dean... From below, Cater says: "The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation beams that can move planets from one place to another and to different orbits."

I cannot kindly comment about the above (and the rest of what Cater wrote below) "giant spaceships" moving earth with "levitation beams" is science-fiction fantasy , an imaginative invention in Cater's mind. His opinion.

  • Dick,
  • You never do comment kindly on Cater. It is unusual that you never agree with him on anything.
  • Anyway, that's the way he is. He is short and to the point. He has offered a good explanation which is congruent with his entire presentation. Just as gravity is a matter of total electromagnetic charge within the Earth's shell, if you increse that charge, then there will be more gravity and the planet's orbit will shrink. Levitation radiation, or beams, in that sense. He explained what he meant. Take it or leave it.

What are Cater's SOLID scientific real-world PROOFS to support his idea about spaceships and levitation beams? If he provides such, why haven't you included them?

  • What do you want? 14 " by 11" glossies? Aren't UFOs rather secretive about their movements? Why would they reveal their activities from the past if they avoid attention to their current visits?

He doesn't state his ideas as a "possibility," or his "theory," he states his ideas as FACT, the "only answer" to the biblical flood, so he certainly should provide us some reasonable evidence.

  • Take it or leave it, that's his personality. He does provide explanations for his soft particle physics all through his book. Now you are seeing an application.

And while on Cater's ideas, you mentioned earlier that Cater says our visible Sun is a BINARY, with the other binary Sun hidden from our view on the opposite side of our visible Sun. What are Cater's PROOFS, his EVIDENCE that such a 2nd Sun exists? Or is that another of his ideas like the giant spaceships with levitation beams?

  • Again, what do you want? A spacship tour of the far side of the Sun? He actually offers logic for the sun being a binary in his book. I can't reproduce his whole book for people. It is a matter of getting enough to go on from this list, then reading the book if it so piques your interest.
  • But since you have asked, I will pass on at least one of the comments which I remember.Hesays that given the distance of Mars from the Sun that the temperature should never rise above freezing, not in the spring, nor in the Martian summer. That there is melting of the ice caps suggests that there is another source of heat, i.e., a binary. Otherwise, what is the source of heat? You can't say that the atmosphere traps heat because there isn't supposed to be much of an atmosphere. If our Earth even tilts a little bit, like at thepoles, we end up with sub zero temperatures, what to speak of a planet so far removed with such little ( supposedly ) atmosphere. The irradiation from the sun should have thinned out quite a bit by the time the orbit of Mars is reached.
  • The speed at which the moon just so happens to rotate the earth such that the moon always shows its face to us is more than uncanny. It is practically impossible for that to happen just be chance. This suggests that orbits are ajusted with precision.

I recently posted you Thomas Gold's "theory" (on Col. Prouty's website) that GASES and vast pools of oil (below fossil layers - a fact) came with the Earth at its birth. Churchward's description of how the earth's crust support Gold's theory...and Gold's theory gives general support to Churchward's. But BOTH men provide a lot of real world EVIDENCE to support their theories.

Cater, unless you have failed to include his evidence, provides nothing to prove his spaceships, levitation beams and binary sun viewpoints. Please provide them for us if they exist. -

  • I think that it is relatively easy to prove the existence of oil in the strata below. Accept Cater's explanations as an educated guess, a good explanation about how things could have happened given some non-othrodox physics.
  • And Dick, you don't have to make a career out of opposing Cater. Once you've made your points, if other people don't feel the way that you do, let it slide. Your time would be better spent posting some of Churchward's discoveries and such on the web and calling people's attention to it on the various appropriate lists.

Later,

Dean

Dick

Members-

Here are some comments from Joseph H. Cater in Chapter 15 of  The Ultimate
Reality. He explains how the floods could have been caused, how the cloud
canopy- which he calls mantle, fell- and how the orbit of the Earth could
have changed.

The idea behind his " levitation beam " is that it would simply be a beam
consisting of the gravity inducing frequency which is emitted from some of
those mother ship type of UFOs. the increase of the gravity-inducing charge
thus absorbed by the Earth's shell would shrink the radius of the Earth's
orbit. It would also and increase the amount of gravity, which would have a
stunting and stupifying effect on surface world inhabitants, as well as
reducing the duration of life.

Cavern worlds could be collapsed this way due to the excess acumulation of
gravity within. This thye of UFO interference may account for the legend of
Atlantis, and could account for the Gulf of Mexico collapse at one point.

As always, this is just a tidbit, but read on, it is good food for thought.

Cater:

" It is more than likely that giant UFOs have been deeply involved in
notable events of the past which have never been explained. For example, the
great flood of Noah's day seems to defy all the rules of elementary physics
and common sense. It was supposed to have been produced by a rain that
pelted the earth for 40 days and nights. How could such a rain cover entire
mountain ranges? The hardest rain on record, going continuously for 40 days
and nights, could not account for more than about 200 feet of water. Yet
this flood covered Mt. Ararat, which rises three miles above the surrounding
country. In any event, where would all the water come from that could
produce a violent rainstorm lasting for 40 days? Interestingly enough,
records kept by other peoples on other parts of the globe mention a similar
flood, and geological evidence confirms it. Rain could account for only, a
small percentage of the water involved in the flood. Where did this extra
water come from and where did it go after it receded?
The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation beams that can move
planets from one place to another and to different orbits. A levitating beam
or beams of sufficient magnitude to move the earth to a different orbit
would displace large portions of the oceans, causing land masses to be
inundated. After the moving process was completed, the displaced oceans
would return to their former positions.

No doubt prior to the flood the earth was in a different orbit, in full view
of the binary sun, and perhaps closer to the sun than it is now. Its surface
would be protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case with the
planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this mantle

of water vapor quickly condensed as rain."

http://www.healthresearchbooks.com/Authors/joseph_cater.htm

Posted by Dharma/Dean



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->

Small business owners...
Tell us what you think!
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---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

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`

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [Yahoo! Terms of Service](http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).

#9

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Cloud canopies collapsed by gr

Members,

Here is an off beat hollow earth interview on Conspiracy Journal.

http://www.geocities.com/mevlevi2000/timothy-beckley.htm

Dharma/Dean

#10

I'm not sure about the levitation beams. As far as I'm concerned, they
are a legitimate theory, but no more. As for the binary sun, he provides
considerable evidence based on the temperatures on the planets. In fact,
I believe that it is very likely that our sun is a binary, strange
though it may be.

(From Dick) Dean... From below, Cater says: "The only answer is
giant spaceships, with levitation beams that can move planets from one
place to another and to different orbits."
I cannot kindly comment about the above
(and the rest of what Cater wrote below) "giant
spaceships" moving earth with "levitation beams" is
science-fiction fantasy, an imaginative invention in Cater's mind.
His opinion.

 What are Cater's SOLID scientific real-world

PROOFS to support his idea about spaceships and levitation beams? If he
provides such, why haven't you included them? He doesn't state his ideas
as a "possibility," or his "theory," he states his
ideas as FACT, the "only answer" to the biblical flood, so he
certainly should provide us some reasonable evidence.

 And while on Cater's ideas, you mentioned

earlier that Cater says our visible Sun is a BINARY, with the other
binary Sun hidden from our view on the opposite side of our visible Sun.
What are Cater's PROOFS, his EVIDENCE that such a 2nd Sun exists? Or is
that another of his ideas like the giant spaceships with levitation
beams?

 I recently posted you Thomas Gold's

"theory" (on Col. Prouty's website) that GASES and vast pools
of oil (below fossil layers - a fact) came with the Earth at its birth.
Churchward's description of how the earth's crust support Gold's
theory...and Gold's theory gives general support to Churchward's. But
BOTH men provide a lot of real world EVIDENCE to support their
theories.

 Cater, unless you have failed to include his

evidence, provides nothing to prove his spaceships, levitation beams and
binary sun viewpoints. Please provide them for us if they exist. -
Dick

Members-

Here are some comments from Joseph H. Cater in Chapter 15 of The
Ultimate

Reality. He explains how the floods could have been caused, how the
cloud

canopy- which he calls mantle, fell- and how the orbit of the Earth
could

have changed.

The idea behind his " levitation beam " is that it would simply
be a beam

consisting of the gravity inducing frequency which is emitted from some
of

those mother ship type of UFOs. the increase of the gravity-inducing
charge

thus absorbed by the Earth's shell would shrink the radius of the
Earth's

orbit. It would also and increase the amount of gravity, which would have
a

stunting and stupifying effect on surface world inhabitants, as well
as

reducing the duration of life.

Cavern worlds could be collapsed this way due to the excess acumulation
of

gravity within. This thye of UFO interference may account for the legend
of

Atlantis, and could account for the Gulf of Mexico collapse at one
point.

As always, this is just a tidbit, but read on, it is good food for
thought.

Cater:

" It is more than likely that giant UFOs have been deeply involved
in

notable events of the past which have never been explained. For example,
the

great flood of Noah's day seems to defy all the rules of elementary
physics

and common sense. It was supposed to have been produced by a rain
that

pelted the earth for 40 days and nights. How could such a rain cover
entire

mountain ranges? The hardest rain on record, going continuously for 40
days

and nights, could not account for more than about 200 feet of water.
Yet

this flood covered Mt. Ararat, which rises three miles above the
surrounding

country. In any event, where would all the water come from that
could

produce a violent rainstorm lasting for 40 days? Interestingly
enough,

records kept by other peoples on other parts of the globe mention a
similar

flood, and geological evidence confirms it. Rain could account for only,
a

small percentage of the water involved in the flood. Where did this
extra

water come from and where did it go after it receded?

The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation beams that can
move

planets from one place to another and to different orbits. A levitating
beam

or beams of sufficient magnitude to move the earth to a different
orbit

would displace large portions of the oceans, causing land masses to
be

inundated. After the moving process was completed, the displaced
oceans

would return to their former positions.

No doubt prior to the flood the earth was in a different orbit, in full
view

of the binary sun, and perhaps closer to the sun than it is now. Its
surface

would be protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case with
the

planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this
mantle

of water vapor quickly condensed as rain."

http://www.healthresearchbooks.com/Authors/joseph_cater.htm

Posted by Dharma/Dean

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···

At 05:54 PM 7/27/2001 -0700, you wrote:

#11

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Cloud canopies collapsed
by gr

Nathan wrote: I'm not sure about the
levitation beams. As far as I'm concerned, they are a legitimate
theory, but no more. As for the binary sun, he provides considerable
evidence based on the temperatures on the planets. In fact, I believe
that it is very likely that our sun is a binary, strange though it
may be.
Nathan
and all (from Dick)... "legitimate THEORY, but no more."
makes your point - and mine. Cater's spaceships and levitation
beams are his THEORY. Fine. I can accept that. Still think it is just
his fantasy, but theories often are until proven with reasonable
evidence. But Cater states his idea as FACT: "The only
answer...", not his "theory."

The binary sun THEORY
too. It MAY be, but before I can consider it, I would like to read
that "considerable evidence based on the temperatures on the
planets," - IF NASA and/or Telescopes can even accurately
"measure" the actual temperatures of the planets and the Sun
itself, which I greatly doubt. Jupiter apparently (again, if their
measurements are accurate) radiates many times more "energy" than
it supposedly receives from the Sun, seems an anomaly, if the Sun is
THE sole source of "energy" (and light?) for the solar system's
planets. I's appreciate reading some of Cater's reasoning about
temperatures proving our Sun has a hidden "twin."

Also, I noticed
in several astronomy books, that although there seem to be
some binary stars rotating around a "common center" between them.
most binaries apparently consist of a smaller star orbiting around a
larger star. Does Cater's binary "sun" orbit AROUND our
visible sun? If it is following the laws of other orbiting bodies
in the universe and this solar system, it will be moving west to
east, like earth and our other planets on the same general plane of
our visible sun's equator, won't it? How could it remain invisible to
us? Is it somehow rotating ENORMOUSLY slow? Practically standing
still? That doesn't make sense. Or is it in some unexplainable way
sitting just beyond our visible sun, not orbiting at all, but fixed
further**: "No doubt prior to the flood the earth was in a
different orbit, in full view of the binary sun, and perhaps closer
to the sun than it is now."

"No
doubt?" That's just sheer fanciful SPECULATION on Cater's part.
WHY would Earth be in a different orbit? Do planetary orbits come
about in some capricious manner? No reason other than chance? Planets
can just as well be orbiting closer to the Sun or much farther away?
They are positioned in their precise orbital planes by accident? That
seems to be the implication of Cater - and the implication of
NASA's "nudge" the earth theorists following...

NASA's
recent idiotic puerile idea that they can "nudge" the earth into
a new, "cooler" orbit around the Sun, does not differ much from
Cater's fantasy that giant spaceships "nudged" Earth into a
different orbit. I must now presume Cater sees nothing in error about
NASA's proposal (to use a comet though, not Cater's giant
spaceships).

Cater continued: "Its (Earth's) surface would be
protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case with the
planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this
mantle of water vapor quickly condensed as rain."

Again, the preceding seems just imaginative, science fiction
speculation by Cater. WHY would Earth's surface be protected
by a great mantle of water vapor "as is the case with the planet
Venus"? Does Cater explain HOW that mantle came to exist
above Earth? Also, I'm aware Venus is covered with CLOUDS, but
Cater is CERTAIN Venus' clouds are also a mantle of WATER VAPOR (soon
to condense as rain?). Does he have EVIDENCE of this for Venus that
orthodox science should be made aware of?

I
find it amazing that Cater, who was disinterested in studying the
GEOLOGICAL history of earth's rocky crust and seems to apparently
know little about it, leaving such matters to geologists (according
to Dean), still asserts to know ALL about Earth's planetary orbit
being changed capriciously by (nasty?) giant spaceships, earthquakes,
volcanos, gravity, Noah's biblical flood - and just about every
other Earthly phenomena!

Or have I in error joined a SCIENCE FICTION list?

L. Ron Hubbard in Scientology (who also was a science fiction
author), sometimes spoke of experiences on the "whole
track." "Thetans," his term for Beings like us, have
existed as individuals for billions of years. Along the way we have
become "enturbulated," our consciousness surrounded with mentally
SOLID concepts and ideas that we were just "MEST," Matter,
Ebergy, Space and Time, not Spirtitual Beings "outside" and
superior to things in the physical universe. To free individuals from
all these encumbrances was the original purpose of Scientology, and
apparently still is judging by literature I just read.

But some
of the stories about "SPACE OPERA" that Beings took part in over
those "billions of years" that I used to hear from people close
to Hubbard, were incredible. No Serpent ETs, as I recall... but
Pirate Space ships raiding planets, blasting competition and
other space ships to pieces, Planets being blown up, etc. And
millions upon millions of Beings (Thetans) were enslaved by other
Beings and given brainwashing that has lasted to the present. Earth
was supposed to be one of the "prison planets" where the
brainwashed were dumped off. And many of us are still here, according
to Hubbard's confidants.

Did I believe the preceding. Hell, no! And even more
hell no during the years I remained a Scientologist. Hubbard had some
incredible fantasies to entertain people with in private that
I don't think he believed himself. If any parts of those tales were
true, aside from prison status for earth, all the space wars and
planet blasting seemed to have been outside this solar system and
way, way back in "time." But incredibly entertaining science
fiction fantasy.

More
science fiction.... Robert Morningsky, the Indian, heard often on
Art Bell (my wife enjoys his Hopi Indian dancing), creatively
"borrowed" Sitchin's Annunaki characters (Anu, Enki, Enlil etc.),
and wrote his own tale, some of you may have read. Morningsky threw
out the 12th planet completely, and put Anu and his bunch on a
distant "fixed" planet ruling this "quadrant" of the galaxy.
He also increased the AGE Enki and Enlil and friends could live, from
the paltry (apparent 500,000 or so years imagined by Sitchin) to
nearly a million years.

Instead of
Sitchin's Nibiru moon crashing into giant Tiamat and busting it in
half, Morningsky told of planet sized spaceships (The
first Star Wars movie had already appeared) battling in this area
of space. (Such battles were common in the Galaxy. Serpent people
and other races were trying to control everyone else.)

One of the
planet sized spaceships was mortally wounded and decided to suicide
crash into Tiamat (occupied by the opposition) and the crash of that
planet sized space ship busted the planet in 2 pieces! Then,
rejoining Sitchin, Morningsky had the larger busted off half,
"reforming" to (miraculously) become our Earth, and the smaller
busted off half disintegrated further to become the asteroid belt. I
don't believe Sitchin has ever read Morningsky's tale or he would
have exploded in anger. But frankly, I personally like Morningsky's
version better than Sitchin's. Morningsky is more imaginative and
writes better! But with BOTH their tales, they're still largely
science-fiction fantasy, in my opinion.

The
incredible thing about the preceding is that some sincere people
continue to absolutely believe Hubbard's billions of years extent
"space opera" tales, plus Sitchin's and Morningsky's Sumerian
stories.

On the
other hand maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe Hubbard, Sitchin and
Morningsky have been telling a lot of truths. And maybe Cater is also
correct about giant spaceships with levitation beams moving the Earth
to a new orbit, causing the water mantle to fall in time for Noah's
boat trip. And maybe it is "very" likely our sun has a hidden
binary twin. And maybe giant spaceships blasted all those
"shallow" craters on the moon and Mars (target practice?),
another idea of Cater, I seem to remember Dean mentioning.

I
apologize for seeming such a spoil-sport, demanding a lot more
evidence to support various claims now in my later years. -
Dick

···

at some small distance by our visible sun's gravity? That would defy all known natural laws. Please explain how a binary is " 'very' likely?" **Cater wrote

At 05:54 PM 7/27/2001 -0700, you > wrote:

(From
Dick) Dean... From below, Cater says: "The only answer is giant
spaceships, with levitation beams that can move planets from one
place to another and to different orbits."
I cannot kindly comment about the
above (and the rest of what Cater wrote below)
"giant spaceships" moving earth with "levitation
beams" is science-fiction fantasy, an imaginative
invention in Cater's mind. His opinion.

 What are Cater's SOLID scientific real-world

PROOFS to support his idea about spaceships and levitation beams? If
he provides such, why haven't you included them? He doesn't state his
ideas as a "possibility," or his "theory," he
states his ideas as FACT, the "only answer" to the biblical
flood, so he certainly should provide us some reasonable evidence.

 And while on Cater's ideas, you mentioned

earlier that Cater says our visible Sun is a BINARY, with the other
binary Sun hidden from our view on the opposite side of our visible
Sun. What are Cater's PROOFS, his EVIDENCE that such a 2nd Sun
exists? Or is that another of his ideas like the giant spaceships
with levitation beams?

 I recently posted you Thomas Gold's

"theory" (on Col. Prouty's website) that GASES and vast
pools of oil (below fossil layers - a fact) came with the Earth at
its birth. Churchward's description of how the earth's crust support
Gold's theory...and Gold's theory gives general support to
Churchward's. But BOTH men provide a lot of real world EVIDENCE to
support their theories.

 Cater, unless you have failed to include his

evidence, provides nothing to prove his spaceships, levitation beams
and binary sun viewpoints. Please provide them for us if they
exist. - Dick

Members-

Here are some comments from Joseph H. Cater in Chapter 15 of
The Ultimate

Reality. He explains how the floods could have been caused, how the
cloud

canopy- which he calls mantle, fell- and how the orbit of the Earth
could

have changed.

The idea behind his " levitation beam " is that it would
simply be a beam

consisting of the gravity inducing frequency which is emitted from
some of

those mother ship type of UFOs. the increase of the gravity-inducing
charge

thus absorbed by the Earth's shell would shrink the radius of the
Earth's

orbit. It would also and increase the amount of gravity, which would
have a

stunting and stupifying effect on surface world inhabitants, as well
as

reducing the duration of life.

Cavern worlds could be collapsed this way due to the excess
acumulation of

gravity within. This thye of UFO interference may account for the
legend of

Atlantis, and could account for the Gulf of Mexico collapse at one
point.

As always, this is just a tidbit, but read on, it is good food for
thought.

Cater:

" It is more than likely that giant UFOs have been deeply
involved in

notable events of the past which have never been explained. For
example, the

great flood of Noah's day seems to defy all the rules of elementary
physics

and common sense. It was supposed to have been produced by a rain
that

pelted the earth for 40 days and nights. How could such a rain cover
entire

mountain ranges? The hardest rain on record, going continuously for
40 days

and nights, could not account for more than about 200 feet of water.
Yet

this flood covered Mt. Ararat, which rises three miles above the
surrounding

country. In any event, where would all the water come from that
could

produce a violent rainstorm lasting for 40 days? Interestingly
enough,

records kept by other peoples on other parts of the globe mention a
similar

flood, and geological evidence confirms it. Rain could account for
only, a

small percentage of the water involved in the flood. Where did this
extra

water come from and where did it go after it receded?

The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation beams that can
move

planets from one place to another and to different orbits. A
levitating beam
or beams of sufficient magnitude to move
the earth to a different orbit

would displace large portions of the oceans, causing land masses to
be

inundated. After the moving process was completed, the displaced
oceans

would return to their former positions.
No doubt prior to the flood the earth
was in a different orbit, in full view

of the binary sun, and perhaps closer to the sun than it is now. Its
surface

would be protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case
with the

planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this
mantle
of water vapor quickly condensed as
rain."

http://www.healthresearchbooks.com/Authors/joseph_cater.htm

Posted by Dharma/Dean

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#12

Re: DeanToDick Cloud canopies collapsed by gravity
bea

Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Cloud canopies
collapsed by gravity beams

(From Dick) Dean... From
below, Cater says: "The only answer is giant spaceships, with
levitation beams that can move planets from one place to another and
to different orbits."
I cannot kindly comment
about the above (and the rest of what Cater wrote below)
"giant spaceships" moving earth with "levitation
beams" is science-fiction fantasy, an imaginative
invention in Cater's mind. His opinion.

  • Dick,
  • You never do comment kindly on Cater.
    It is unusual that you never agree with him on
    anything.

Dean... I guess you're right about that. But you've dismissed
some of my comments in which I suggested I think Cater MIGHT be
correct on certain matters. But those statements of his which you've
posted that I have trouble finding validity for, I have pointed
out... and frequently requested you EXPLAIN them or provide Cater's
PROOFS for same. A few times you have done so, but not often, as you
have with my comments below. I responded to Nathan's reply,.so won't
bother repeating those parts here. Check it out. This is your Hollow
Earth list of course, but I find it more of a Joseph Cater List much
of the time, or an Etidorhpa list.

I was originally drawn to this list because I was impressed with
Jan Lamprecht's explanations on Punnett's radio program about hollow
planets - AND because I was aware of James Churchward's scientific
explanations of HOW a great hollow came to exist in the earth in the
first place! It appeared to me and still does, that none of
the Hollow Earth proponents, including Cater, have had a clear idea
HOW the hollow was formed. Just that it exists. When new people come
along how can you answer that primary question in their minds, if
none of you understand it yourselves? And if Churchward was correct
how the hollow came to be, perhaps thoughtful researchers should
examine his OTHER data about this planet and its geological history.
They too, may possess some truths to consider. More below... -
Dick

  • Anyway, that's the way he is. He is
    short and to the point. He has offered a good explanation which is
    congruent with his entire presentation. Just as gravity is a matter
    of total electromagnetic charge within the Earth's shell, if you
    increse that charge, then there will be more gravity and the planet's
    orbit will shrink. Levitation radiation, or beams, in that sense. He
    explained what he meant. Take it or leave it.

Dean... once more you state the Cater theory above about gravity
as absolute FACT. He may be partially correct, but it completely
tosses out all other viewpoints, Newtons, Churchward's and of course
orthodox science. - Dick

···

What are Cater's SOLID
scientific real-world PROOFS to support his idea about spaceships and
levitation beams? If he provides such, why haven't you included
them?

  • What do you want? 14 " by 11" glossies?
    Aren't UFOs rather secretive about their movements? Why would they
    reveal their activities from the past if they avoid attention to
    their current visits?
    Dean... Hell yes! If Cater doesn't have reasonable
    EVIDENCE (not your silly "glossies" crack) to support his UFO
    ideas, he should caution readers that they are his UNproven theories,
    not FACTS. - Dick

He doesn't state his ideas as a
"possibility," or his "theory," he states his
ideas as FACT, the "only answer" to the biblical flood, so
he certainly should provide us some reasonable evidence.

  • Take it or leave it, that's his
    personality. He does provide explanations for his soft particle
    physics all through his book. Now you are seeing an
    application.
    Dean... what the heck do mean "Now you are seeing an
    application."? and "that's his personality."? So he provides
    explanations for his soft particle physics all though his book. That
    doesn't satisfy the lack of proof about his spaceships moving the
    earth with levitation beams. - Dick

--------------------------------.

And while on Cater's ideas, you
mentioned earlier that Cater says our visible Sun is a BINARY, with
the other binary Sun hidden from our view on the opposite side of our
visible Sun. What are Cater's PROOFS, his EVIDENCE that such a 2nd
Sun exists? Or is that another of his ideas like the giant spaceships
with levitation beams?

  • Again, what do you want? A spacship
    tour of the far side of the Sun? He actually offers logic for the sun
    being a binary in his book. I can't reproduce his whole book for
    people. It is a matter of getting enough to go on from this list,
    then reading the book if it so piques your
    interest.
    Dean... Certainly you can't reproduce his entire book. Just
    enough to support his binary theory    . I have not yet read enough
    of your Cater assertions to inspire me to buy his book. On the
    contrary, right or wrong, many of his assertions have seemed just
    imaginative speculations, such as the giant spaceships moving this
    planet. Who were they? Good guys? Bad Guys? Surely Cater must have an
    idea. Why is it antagonistic to ask questions about his spaceships
    assertions? - Dick
  • But since you have asked, I will
    pass on at least one of the comments which I remember.Hesays that
    given the distance of Mars from the Sun that the temperature should
    never rise above freezing, not in the spring, nor in the Martian
    summer. That there is melting of the ice caps suggests that there is
    another source of heat, i.e., a binary. Otherwise, what is the source
    of heat? You can't say that the atmosphere traps heat because there
    isn't supposed to be much of an atmosphere. If our Earth even tilts a
    little bit, like at thepoles, we end up with sub zero temperatures,
    what to speak of a planet so far removed with such little (
    supposedly ) atmosphere. The irradiation from the sun should have
    thinned out quite a bit by the time the orbit of Mars is
    reached.
    Dean... Again, orthodoxy THINKS Mars, earth and the other
    planets get their HEAT (and "energy") solely and directly from
    the Sun. But Jupiter apparently radiates more heat and "energy"
    than it supposedly receives from the Sun. We all theorize that MARS,
    like Earth and Venus is hollow, with light and energy flowing visibly
    out the poles. Maybe Mars is nice and warm inside. What do such
    anomalies do to Cater's calculations he uses to support his theory of
    a SECOND Sun radiating heat? If Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Earth
    somehow GENERATE forces (and HEAT) in ways Cater has not
    conceived, his theory of a binary may be just a figment of his
    imagination. - Dick
  • The speed at which the moon
    just so happens to rotate the earth such that the moon always shows
    its face to us is more than uncanny. It is practically impossible for
    that to happen just be chance. This suggests that orbits are ajusted
    with precision
    Dean... it may seem "uncanny" and I haven't the slightest
    idea how it came to orbit Earth (Capture?). But it is a relatively
    DEAD body, it's rotation insignificant. Isn't it obvious that Earth's
    surface centrifugal force (throwing the moon and every other particle
    outward) is nullified by Earth's central magnet (pulling the moon and
    all inward)?

Depending on the residual affinitive magnetic forces in the moon,
the moon orbits at a specific NEUTRAL ZONE orbit where Earth's magnet
cancels out Earth's centrifugal force. Not rotating appreciably,
Earth's magnetic forces are "glued" to the side of the moon
facing us. If earth became a dead planet, not revolving, the Sun
might well magnetically "hold" one side facing it, as Earth holds
the moon. This may seem "uncanny" but it happens to be the
way it is. And apparently has been so throughout recorded history. Do
you think NASA or Cater's fantastic spaceships could MOVE the moon
closer or further from earth without upsetting the delicate
balance? Apparently you think so. - Dick

I recently posted you
Thomas Gold's "theory" (on Col. Prouty's website) that
GASES and vast pools of oil (below fossil layers - a fact) came with
the Earth at its birth. Churchward's description of how the earth's
crust support Gold's theory...and Gold's theory gives general support
to Churchward's. But BOTH men provide a lot of real world EVIDENCE to
support their theories.
Cater, unless you have failed to
include his evidence, provides nothing to prove his spaceships,
levitation beams and binary sun viewpoints. Please provide them for
us if they exist. -

  • I think that it is relatively easy to
    prove the existence of oil in the strata below. Accept Cater's
    explanations as an educated guess, a good explanation about how
    things could have happened given some non-othrodox
    physics.
    Dean... Cater's explanations. I'll do just that, accept them as
    an educated guess, but not as FACT unless provided with
    accompanying reasonable evidences    . - Dick
  • And Dick, you don't have to make
    a career out of opposing Cater. Once you've made your points, if
    other people don't feel the way that you do, let it slide. Your time
    would be better spent posting some of Churchward's discoveries and
    such on the web and calling people's attention to it on the various
    appropriate lists.
    Dean... Didn't realize you felt I was making a "career out of
    opposing Cater"

Didn't think I was. Perhaps you're right. But
you quote him so often as absolute truth (some of which I do not
agree about) my choice is to remain silent or respond. It is clear my
responses are irritating to you. So I will probably remain silent
from here on. - Dick

Dean...

Later,
Dean
Dick

Members-

Here are some comments from Joseph H. Cater in Chapter 15 of
The Ultimate

Reality. He explains how the floods could have been caused, how the
cloud

canopy- which he calls mantle, fell- and how the orbit of the Earth
could

have changed.

The idea behind his " levitation beam " is that it would
simply be a beam

consisting of the gravity inducing frequency which is emitted from
some of

those mother ship type of UFOs. the increase of the gravity-inducing
charge

thus absorbed by the Earth's shell would shrink the radius of the
Earth's

orbit. It would also and increase the amount of gravity, which would
have a

stunting and stupifying effect on surface world inhabitants, as well
as

reducing the duration of life.

Cavern worlds could be collapsed this way due to the excess
acumulation of

gravity within. This thye of UFO interference may account for the
legend of

Atlantis, and could account for the Gulf of Mexico collapse at one
point.

As always, this is just a tidbit, but read on, it is good food for
thought.
Cater:

" It is more than likely that giant UFOs have been deeply
involved in

notable events of the past which have never been explained. For
example, the

great flood of Noah's day seems to defy all the rules of elementary
physics

and common sense. It was supposed to have been produced by a rain
that

pelted the earth for 40 days and nights. How could such a rain cover
entire

mountain ranges? The hardest rain on record, going continuously for
40 days

and nights, could not account for more than about 200 feet of water.
Yet

this flood covered Mt. Ararat, which rises three miles above the
surrounding

country. In any event, where would all the water come from that
could

produce a violent rainstorm lasting for 40 days? Interestingly
enough,

records kept by other peoples on other parts of the globe mention a
similar

flood, and geological evidence confirms it. Rain could account for
only, a

small percentage of the water involved in the flood. Where did this
extra

water come from and where did it go after it receded?
The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation
beams that can move
planets from one place to another and to different
orbits. A levitating beam

or beams of sufficient magnitude to move the earth to a different
orbit
would displace large portions of the oceans, causing land
masses to be

inundated. After the moving process was completed, the displaced
oceans

would return to their former positions.

No doubt prior to the flood the earth was in a different orbit, in
full view

of the binary sun, and perhaps closer to the sun than it is now. Its
surface

would be protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case
with the

planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this
mantle

of water vapor quickly condensed as rain."

http://www.healthresearchbooks.com/Authors/joseph_cater.htm
Posted by Dharma/Dean

#13

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Cloud canopies collapsed by gr
Lobsang Rampa write that Moon was place here, near of our planet.

Moon is from another part of universe.

If Carter said, its possible to move earth , maybe its not a strange idea

I dont remenber which book TLR write this.

Tunguska explosion is made by a anti material, with a size a ball of football. This explosion was a impact on all this planet, because this ball, has a meteorite, with a high velocity. If we bring several balls of anti material, slowly, near our surfage, possible we can move this planet from this orbit.

Luis Aparicio

Estoril Portugal

52ba90.jpg

52bb2f.jpg

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Dick Fojut

To: [email protected]

Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:39 PM

Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Cloud canopies collapsed by gravity beams

Nathan wrote: I'm not sure about the levitation beams. As far as I'm concerned, they are a legitimate theory, but no more. As for the binary sun, he provides considerable evidence based on the temperatures on the planets. In fact, I believe that it is *very* likely that our sun is a binary, strange though it may be.
Nathan and all (from Dick)... **"legitimate THEORY, but no more."** makes your point - and mine. Cater's spaceships and levitation beams are his THEORY. Fine. I can accept that. Still think it is just his fantasy, but theories often are until proven with reasonable evidence. But Cater states his idea as FACT: "The only answer...", not his "theory."

The binary sun THEORY too. It MAY be, but before I can consider it, I would like to read that "considerable evidence based on the temperatures on the planets," - IF NASA and/or Telescopes can even accurately "measure" the actual temperatures of the planets and the Sun itself, which I greatly doubt. Jupiter apparently (again, if their measurements are accurate) radiates many times more "energy" than it supposedly receives from the Sun, seems an anomaly, if the Sun is THE sole source of "energy" (and light?) for the solar system's planets. I's appreciate reading some of Cater's reasoning about temperatures proving our Sun has a hidden "twin."

Also, I noticed in several astronomy books, that although there seem to be some binary stars rotating around a "common center" between them. most binaries apparently consist of a smaller star orbiting around a larger star. ** Does Cater's binary "sun" orbit AROUND our visible sun?** If it is following the laws of other orbiting bodies in the universe and this solar system, it will be moving west to east, like earth and our other planets on the same general plane of our visible sun's equator, won't it? How could it remain invisible to us? Is it somehow rotating ENORMOUSLY slow? Practically standing still? That doesn't make sense. Or is it in some unexplainable way sitting just beyond our visible sun, not orbiting at all, but fixed at some small distance by our visible sun's gravity? That would defy all known natural laws. Please explain how a binary is " 'very' likely?"

** Cater wrote further** : "No doubt prior to the flood the earth was in a different orbit, in full view of the binary sun, and perhaps closer to the sun than it is now."

"No doubt?"
That's just sheer fanciful SPECULATION on Cater's part. WHY would Earth be in a different orbit? Do planetary orbits come about in some capricious manner? No reason other than chance? Planets can just as well be orbiting closer to the Sun or much farther away? They are positioned in their precise orbital planes by accident? That seems to be the implication of Cater - and the implication of NASA's "nudge" the earth theorists following...

NASA's recent idiotic puerile idea that they can "nudge" the earth into a new, "cooler" orbit around the Sun, does not differ much from Cater's fantasy that giant spaceships "nudged" Earth into a different orbit. I must now presume Cater sees nothing in error about NASA's proposal (to use a comet though, not Cater's giant spaceships).

** Cater continued:** "Its (Earth's) surface would be protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case with the planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this mantle of water vapor quickly condensed as rain."

Again, the preceding seems just imaginative, science fiction speculation by Cater. WHY would Earth's surface be protected by a great mantle of water vapor "as is the case with the planet Venus"? Does Cater explain HOW that mantle came to exist above Earth? Also, I'm aware Venus is covered with CLOUDS, but Cater is CERTAIN Venus' clouds are also a mantle of WATER VAPOR (soon to condense as rain?). Does he have EVIDENCE of this for Venus that orthodox science should be made aware of?

I find it amazing that Cater, who was disinterested in studying the GEOLOGICAL history of earth's rocky crust and seems to apparently know little about it, leaving such matters to geologists (according to Dean), still asserts to know ALL about Earth's planetary orbit being changed capriciously by (nasty?) giant spaceships, earthquakes, volcanos, gravity, Noah's biblical flood - and just about every other Earthly phenomena!

** Or have I in error joined a SCIENCE FICTION list?**

** L. Ron Hubbard in Scientology (who also was a science fiction author), sometimes spoke of experiences on the "whole track."** "Thetans," his term for Beings like us, have existed as individuals for billions of years. Along the way we have become "enturbulated," our consciousness surrounded with mentally SOLID concepts and ideas that we were just "MEST," Matter, Ebergy, Space and Time, not Spirtitual Beings "outside" and superior to things in the physical universe. To free individuals from all these encumbrances was the original purpose of Scientology, and apparently still is judging by literature I just read.

But some of the stories about "SPACE OPERA" that Beings took part in over those "billions of years" that I used to hear from people close to Hubbard, were incredible. No Serpent ETs, as I recall... but Pirate Space ships raiding planets, blasting competition and other space ships to pieces, Planets being blown up, etc. And millions upon millions of Beings (Thetans) were enslaved by other Beings and given brainwashing that has lasted to the present. Earth was supposed to be one of the "prison planets" where the brainwashed were dumped off. And many of us are still here, according to Hubbard's confidants.

** Did I believe the preceding. Hell, no!** And even more hell no during the years I remained a Scientologist. Hubbard had some incredible fantasies ** to entertain people with** in private that I don't think he believed himself. If any parts of those tales were true, aside from prison status for earth, all the space wars and planet blasting seemed to have been outside this solar system and way, way back in "time." But incredibly entertaining science fiction fantasy.

** More science fiction..** .. Robert Morningsky, the Indian, heard often on Art Bell (my wife enjoys his Hopi Indian dancing), creatively "borrowed" Sitchin's Annunaki characters (Anu, Enki, Enlil etc.), and wrote his own tale, some of you may have read. Morningsky threw out the 12th planet completely, and put Anu and his bunch on a distant "fixed" planet ruling this "quadrant" of the galaxy. He also increased the AGE Enki and Enlil and friends could live, from the paltry (apparent 500,000 or so years imagined by Sitchin) to nearly a million years.

Instead of Sitchin's Nibiru moon crashing into giant Tiamat and busting it in half, ** Morningsky told of** planet sized spaceships (The first Star Wars movie had already appeared) battling in this area of space. (Such battles were common in the Galaxy. Serpent people and other races were trying to control everyone else.)

One of the planet sized spaceships was mortally wounded and decided to suicide crash into Tiamat (occupied by the opposition) and the crash of that planet sized space ship busted the planet in 2 pieces! Then, rejoining Sitchin, Morningsky had the larger busted off half, "reforming" to (miraculously) become our Earth, and the smaller busted off half disintegrated further to become the asteroid belt. I don't believe Sitchin has ever read Morningsky's tale or he would have exploded in anger. But frankly, I personally like Morningsky's version better than Sitchin's. Morningsky is more imaginative and writes better! But with BOTH their tales, they're still largely science-fiction fantasy, in my opinion.

The incredible thing about the preceding is that some sincere people continue to absolutely believe Hubbard's billions of years extent "space opera" tales, plus Sitchin's and Morningsky's Sumerian stories.

** On the other hand maybe I'm completely wrong** . Maybe Hubbard, Sitchin and Morningsky have been telling a lot of truths. And maybe Cater is also correct about giant spaceships with levitation beams moving the Earth to a new orbit, causing the water mantle to fall in time for Noah's boat trip. And maybe it is "very" likely our sun has a hidden binary twin. And maybe giant spaceships blasted all those "shallow" craters on the moon and Mars (target practice?), another idea of Cater, I seem to remember Dean mentioning.

I apologize for seeming such a spoil-sport, demanding a lot more evidence to support various claims now in my later years. - Dick

At 05:54 PM 7/27/2001 -0700, you wrote:

  (From Dick) Dean... From below, Cater says: "The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation beams that can move planets from one place to another and to different orbits."
        I cannot kindly comment about the above (and the rest of what Cater wrote below)   "giant spaceships" moving earth with "levitation beams" is **science-fiction fantasy**      , an imaginative invention in Cater's mind. His opinion.
       What are Cater's SOLID scientific real-world PROOFS to support his idea about spaceships and levitation beams? If he provides such, why haven't you included them? He doesn't state his ideas as a "possibility," or his "theory," he states his ideas as FACT, the "only answer" to the biblical flood, so he certainly should provide us some reasonable evidence.
       And while on Cater's ideas, you mentioned earlier that Cater says our visible Sun is a BINARY, with the other binary Sun hidden from our view on the opposite side of our visible Sun. What are Cater's PROOFS, his EVIDENCE that such a 2nd Sun exists? Or is that another of his ideas like the giant spaceships with levitation beams?
       I recently posted you Thomas Gold's "theory" (on Col. Prouty's website) that GASES and vast pools of oil (below fossil layers - a fact) came with the Earth at its birth. Churchward's description of how the earth's crust support Gold's theory...and Gold's theory gives general support to Churchward's. But BOTH men provide a lot of real world EVIDENCE to support their theories.
       Cater, unless you have failed to include his evidence, provides nothing to prove his spaceships, levitation beams and binary sun viewpoints. Please provide them for us if they exist.  - Dick

Members-

    Here are some comments from Joseph H. Cater in Chapter 15 of  The Ultimate
    Reality. He explains how the floods could have been caused, how the cloud
    canopy- which he calls mantle, fell- and how the orbit of the Earth could

have changed.

    The idea behind his " levitation beam " is that it would simply be a beam
    consisting of the gravity inducing frequency which is emitted from some of
    those mother ship type of UFOs. the increase of the gravity-inducing charge
    thus absorbed by the Earth's shell would shrink the radius of the Earth's
    orbit. It would also and increase the amount of gravity, which would have a
    stunting and stupifying effect on surface world inhabitants, as well as

reducing the duration of life.

    Cavern worlds could be collapsed this way due to the excess acumulation of
    gravity within. This thye of UFO interference may account for the legend of
    Atlantis, and could account for the Gulf of Mexico collapse at one point.

    As always, this is just a tidbit, but read on, it is good food for thought.

Cater:

    " It is more than likely that giant UFOs have been deeply involved in
    notable events of the past which have never been explained. For example, the
    great flood of Noah's day seems to defy all the rules of elementary physics
    and common sense. It was supposed to have been produced by a rain that
    pelted the earth for 40 days and nights. How could such a rain cover entire
    mountain ranges? The hardest rain on record, going continuously for 40 days
    and nights, could not account for more than about 200 feet of water. Yet
    this flood covered Mt. Ararat, which rises three miles above the surrounding
    country. In any event, where would all the water come from that could
    produce a violent rainstorm lasting for 40 days? Interestingly enough,
    records kept by other peoples on other parts of the globe mention a similar
    flood, and geological evidence confirms it. Rain could account for only, a
    small percentage of the water involved in the flood. Where did this extra
    water come from and where did it go after it receded?
    The only answer is giant spaceships, with levitation beams that can move
    planets from one place to another and to different orbits. A levitating beam
    or beams of sufficient magnitude to move the earth to a different orbit
    would displace large portions of the oceans, causing land masses to be
    inundated. After the moving process was completed, the displaced oceans
    would return to their former positions.
    No doubt prior to the flood the earth was in a different orbit, in full view
    of the binary sun, and perhaps closer to the sun than it is now. Its surface
    would be protected by a great mantle of water vapor as is the case with the
    planet Venus. When the earth was moved into its present orbit, this mantle
    of water vapor quickly condensed as rain."

http://www.healthresearchbooks.com/Authors/joseph_cater.htm

    Posted by Dharma/Dean



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#14

Re: [allplanets-hollow] Cloud canopies collapsed by gr
Luis,

I used to hear things about the Moon being an artificial satellite, artificially placed in orbit and such, and think that it was all fanaticism. But, you know, I have changed. I've been thinking about the rotation of the Moon- it rotates exactly such that the same face is always turned towards us. That does not seem to be anything haphazard or chance.

The Moon's gravity " adjusts " our orbit about the sun to its present point. I mean, if the Moon weren't there, the Earth would have a different orbit. And there is supposed to be a binary on the other side of the sun, or else Mars would never heat up above freezing, not even in the Martian summer. It is usually in view of the binary, right? So maybe the Moon's orbitadjusts our orbit about the Sun; we are this close, but never burned by the binary.

This could be what's going on, but why?

Dharma/Dean

···

Subject: [allplanets-hollow] Moving Planets

Lobsang Rampa write that Moon was place here, near of our planet.

Moon is from another part of universe.

If Carter said, its possible to move earth , maybe its not a strange idea

I dont remenber which book TLR write this.

Tunguska explosion is made by a anti material, with a size a ball of football. This explosion was a impact on all this planet, because this ball, has a meteorite, with a high velocity. If we bring several balls of anti material, slowly, near our surfage, possible we can move this planet from this orbit.

Luis Aparicio

Estoril Portugal