[ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] Un-(or less)-adulterated Puranas?

[sidharthabahadur]

I missed mentioning , in case you hadn't already correlated this about Parshuram , that his name Parshu Ram meant Ram , "the wielder of the battle-axe" , his weapon of choice !

Regards

···

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/20/18, sidhartha bahadur [email protected] [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] <[email protected]> wrote:

Subject: Re: [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] Un-(or less)-adulterated Puranas?
To: "ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW" <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, September 20, 2018, 8:48 AM

         Soretna , Dean , it's great to see your
interest in the Puranas...well , it would take a lifetime of
work , 50 years at least , to completely and
accurately translate the vast volume of Sanskrit literature
that exists . This has been attempted in bits and pieces ,
but quite frankly , is beyond the capability of most
scholars , whether Indian or from other countries .

I am not
saying there is no work done at all in this area , only that
it's incomplete and often strongly
biased , one way or the other !

There
are 2 main barriers to a thorough and complete authentic
translation :
1. Deep
knowledge of Sanskrit and equally strong command over
English , within the same individual - not easy to find that
. I think B.G. Tilak who wrote "Arctic Home of the
Vedas" came the closest to this ideal .

2.
Cultural biases which colour the
translations/interpretations - this applies equally to
Indian authors who attempted it , or learned Western
scholars like Max Mueller who spent decades researching this
area (with an agenda) .

In modern times , there is an
obscure researcher , Ajit Vadakayil , I say obscure
because he isn't well known , outside India , who has a
terrific understanding of this subject - a word of caution though , he is awfully
blunt , quite rigid & his writings have often
offended people , even in India !

**As for myself , like any Indian
kid growing up , mythological stories were part of everyday
life . Two things I can say with reasonable
certainty:
1.
Parshuram , the 6th Avatar of Lord Vishnu , lived in the
North-Western part of Indian subcontinent (present day
Pakistan) . He was NOT dwelling in hollow
Earth
2. The 21
warrior Kshatriya tribes in his story were actually
"exterminated" by him , not merely
"expelled" . Since you've ordered your copy of
an English translation of the Vishnu Purana , you will get
this clarity about Parshuram .
Kalki Avatar (10th Avatar of Vishnu)
though , who is prophesised to come at the end of this
ongoing Kalyuga , is going to emerge from Hollow Earth .

As an
aside , Parshu means battle axe in Sanskrit , and the Rig
Veda states in the chapter on Battle of 10 kings...just
Google on
Dashrajanya" , there was a battle axe wielding
tribe known as "Parshu" , that was defeated &
pushed out of ancient India and went westwards to establish
the nation of "Persia" . This can be independently
verified by studying ancient history of Iran in the Avesta , where it is stated that
earliest name of Iran was "Parshu/Parasika" named
after a battle-axe wielding warrior tribe that entered
through Eastern Iran...

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/battle-axes
           BATTLE-AXES in Eastern Iran
                     
                     BATTLE-AXES in
Eastern Iran. Battle-axes
made of bronze appeared in Eastern Iran during the Bronze
Age. One such
object comes from a burial at the Sapalli-tepa settlement in
southern
Uzbekistan. It has a shaft-hole, an elongated hammer butt,
and its
cutting edge largely widens towards the lower side. It is
dated to the
middle of the second millennium BCE (Askarov, p. 72, pl.
XXVII/2).
Battle-axes remained in use throughout antiquity and the
Middle Ages
(Litvinsky, 2001, pp. 418-24).
The Avesta contains information about battle-axes called
čakuš; the description of Mithra’s chariots in
Yašt 10.131 mentions “well made double-edged
iron axes” (Gershevitch, p. 139; cf. Jackson, p. 116;
Herzfeld, II, p. 783). Yašt 1.18 also mentions
battle-axes among other weapons. In both cases, the term
čakuš is used, and its exact New Persian
correspondence is čākoš, (‘hammer’ or
‘mallet’; see Jackson, p. 116; Malandra, p. 273). In
Tajik, čakuš means ‘hammer’ or ‘mallet’;
the verb čukidan means ‘to hammer’ or ‘to
thresh’, and čukanda stands for ‘hand
threshing tool.’ ; In the Old Persian, the terms
isuvā (of unknown etymology, see Brandenstein and
Mayrhofer, p. 127; Kent, p. 174), and, probably,
vaçā (Malandra, p. 281) were used to describe
battle-axes.
Another reconstructable Old Persian term for the axes,
namely *paraθu, goes back to the common Iranian
*parasu (Abaev, p. 451; Bailey, pp. 13-14). For the
battle-axe, Middle Persian used the term čakuš,
as well as tabar and tabarzēn (Tafazzoli,
pp. 188 and 192).
To describe the pole-axes used by the Central Asian
people, Greek authors used the term sagaris
  (Litvinskiǐ and P’yankov, p. 39). Copper pole-axes of
the Massagetae
(Herodotus, 9.215; Strabo, 9.8.6) and those of the Sakas
(Herodotus,
7.64) are known. Quintus Curtius mentions double-blade
pole-axes used by
  the Barkanians (Girkanians; see Curtius, 3.2.5).
Archeological excavations at the sites of Central Asian
nomads have
produced metal battle-axes used by the Sakas and the
Massagetae. A whole
  series of such battle-axes derives from the Sakas burials
in the
eastern Pamirs (Litvinskiǐ, 1972, pp. 121-25; Litvinskij,
1984, pp.
46-48, fig. 10). Their forms vary greatly (Plate 1), which
makes it
possible to distinguish several types. Two bi-metal
pick-axes (with a
bronze bush-ear and an iron blade) have been found in burial
sites
nearby the Aral Sea. The earliest objects of this type
(dated to the 6th
  century BCE) include bi-metal axes and a double-edged axe
which has a
long, slightly curved faceted blade with a head on one side
and a long
narrow blade on the other. Other axes are dated to the
5th-3rd centuries
  BCE. These battle-axes have a wide range of similarities
among the
battle-axes from the Black Sea coast, the northern Caucasus,
the Kama
River region, Kazakhstan, southern Siberia, and northern
China
(Litvinskiǐ, 2001, pp. 420-24). Central Asian battle-axes
closely
resemble Achaemenid battle-axes known from iconographic
materials and
archeological finds.
In eastern Iran, settled peoples continued using the
battle-axes in
warfare. Thus, iron battle-axes and an elongated silver
pickaxe of an
intricate shape with gilding have been found at the Old Nisa

(Invernizzi, pp. 129-38, pl. H). Peculiar pickaxes, one made
of bronze
and several of iron, of the Indian ankuśa type,
have been found
  at Ay Khanum (Francfort, pp. 56-69, pls. 21, 25, XXI, and
XXXVI).
Pickaxes and battle hammers are presented in Central Asian
and Inner
Asian (northern India included) iconography, as well as on
coins of the
late Hellenistic and post-Hellenistic times (for detailed
lists with
bibliographical references see Invernizzi, pp. 137-38). A
warrior
depicted on a plate from Orlat holds in his hand a
double-edged pickaxe
(Ilyasov and Rusanov, pls. IV/1 and XIII), but this is
already early 3rd
  century CE.
Iconography and archaeological finds testify that
battle-axes were
still in use in the 5th-8th centuries, both as a weapon in
battle and as
  a symbol of power of a ruler or a military commander. A
silver dish
from the Kulagysh village contains the scene of on-foot
combat which
shows broken battle-axes with a rounded cutting edge and
with the
butt-end in the shape of a long blade (Orbeli and Trever,
table 21).
Similar objects can be found in the paintings of Pendjikent.
An iron
battle-axe with a rounded narrow blade and a small butt was
found in the
  layer of the 6th-7th centuries at Aktepe of Yunusabad near
Tashkent
(Terenozhkin, pp. 123-24, fig. 25/7; Raspopova, pp.
77-78).
Ceremonial maces existed too, they frequently appear in
wall
paintings. A real object of the type with the upper part
executed like a
  male head has been found at the Azhartepa (Berdimuradov and
Samibaev,
p. 40, figs. 93-94).
Battle-axes of various types continued to be manufactured
and used in
  Eastern Iran up until the Late Middle Ages (Mukminvoa, p.
114).

Hope this helps !

Regards

                     On Thursday, September 20, 2018, 2:38:12 AM GMT+5:30, Soretna [email protected] [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] <[email protected]> wrote:
                 

       Dean (Sidhartha please feel
free to chime in), after your email the other day,
you've somehow lit a fire within me - or a quest as it
were - to find unadulterated Puranas that translate to
English as very nearly as literal as possible along with a
Parallel presentation of the Sanskrit (or transliterated
version). In your words:

The Parasuram Incarnation met with
twenty-one warrior clans (Kshatriyas) and expulsed them to
the lands called "prithivi", the surface. This
word figures in the Sanskrit texts. I have ordered The
Vishnu Purana, which is huge and tells the stories of the
incarnations in full. I have been limited to the Bhagavat
Purana which only gives a summary of these
stories.
You can find the story of Parasurama
online, but the part about from inside to out is absent,
always. The translators don't know how to handle it. I
once ordered the Kalki Purana which narrates how, at the end
of the Kali Yuga, the Kalki Avatar annihilates the
miscreants, the surface of the Earth is regenerated, and
Kalki and men from the interior re-populate the surface of
the Earth. The translator completely avoided any refference
to inner earth/outer earth; and that's the gist of the
whole story!
But when I receive the Vishnu Purana
itself, I should have detailed information to present.

To this end I've begun to
hunt for such works that meet these qualifications of
maintaining the purity to which you refer.

Could
you please give some exact verbiage and/or page number or
references? For example, I'm not yet aware how one
references material in the Puranas. In Christian biblical
listings we usually will give the name of the book +
chapter and verse. I suspect in this it would be inclusive
of the primary book name too.
So for example, when I refer
to the translation by H.H. Wilson of The Vishnu Purana, I do
not see particularly remarkable references to the word
"surface" per se (there are some interesting
things, sure, but it doesn't seem to be what YOU'RE
referring to).
Any
help at getting these references would be much appreciated
so I can begin my own digging.
I'm considering trying to
contact some folks in some more significant libraries in
India to see what they have to say, but I wanted to see if I
could get more details here first.

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122 --
   #yiv3194497122ygrp-mkp {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px
0;padding:0 10px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mkp hr {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mkp #yiv3194497122hd {
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mkp #yiv3194497122ads {
margin-bottom:10px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mkp .yiv3194497122ad {
padding:0 0;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mkp .yiv3194497122ad p {
margin:0;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mkp .yiv3194497122ad a {
color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-sponsor
#yiv3194497122ygrp-lc {
font-family:Arial;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-sponsor
#yiv3194497122ygrp-lc #yiv3194497122hd {
margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-sponsor
#yiv3194497122ygrp-lc .yiv3194497122ad {
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122actions {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122activity {
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122activity span {
font-weight:700;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122activity span:first-child {
text-transform:uppercase;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122activity span a {
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122activity span span {
color:#ff7900;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122activity span
.yiv3194497122underline {
text-decoration:underline;}

#yiv3194497122 .yiv3194497122attach {
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
0;width:400px;}

#yiv3194497122 .yiv3194497122attach div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv3194497122 .yiv3194497122attach img {
border:none;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv3194497122 .yiv3194497122attach label {
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}

#yiv3194497122 .yiv3194497122attach label a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv3194497122 blockquote {
margin:0 0 0 4px;}

#yiv3194497122 .yiv3194497122bold {
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}

#yiv3194497122 .yiv3194497122bold a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv3194497122 dd.yiv3194497122last p a {
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv3194497122 dd.yiv3194497122last p span {
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv3194497122 dd.yiv3194497122last p
span.yiv3194497122yshortcuts {
margin-right:0;}

#yiv3194497122 div.yiv3194497122attach-table div div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv3194497122 div.yiv3194497122attach-table {
width:400px;}

#yiv3194497122 div.yiv3194497122file-title a, #yiv3194497122
div.yiv3194497122file-title a:active, #yiv3194497122
div.yiv3194497122file-title a:hover, #yiv3194497122
div.yiv3194497122file-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv3194497122 div.yiv3194497122photo-title a,
#yiv3194497122 div.yiv3194497122photo-title a:active,
#yiv3194497122 div.yiv3194497122photo-title a:hover,
#yiv3194497122 div.yiv3194497122photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv3194497122 div#yiv3194497122ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv3194497122ygrp-msg p a span.yiv3194497122yshortcuts {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}

#yiv3194497122 .yiv3194497122green {
color:#628c2a;}

#yiv3194497122 .yiv3194497122MsoNormal {
margin:0 0 0 0;}

#yiv3194497122 o {
font-size:0;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122photos div {
float:left;width:72px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122photos div div {
border:1px solid
#666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122photos div label {
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122reco-category {
font-size:77%;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122reco-desc {
font-size:77%;}

#yiv3194497122 .yiv3194497122replbq {
margin:4px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mlmsg select,
#yiv3194497122 input, #yiv3194497122 textarea {
font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv3194497122
code {
font:115% monospace;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height:1.22em;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-mlmsg #yiv3194497122logo {
padding-bottom:10px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-msg p a {
font-family:Verdana;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-msg
p#yiv3194497122attach-count span {
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-reco
#yiv3194497122reco-head {
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-sponsor #yiv3194497122ov
li a {
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-sponsor #yiv3194497122ov
li {
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-sponsor #yiv3194497122ov
ul {
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-text {
font-family:Georgia;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-text p {
margin:0 0 1em 0;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-text tt {
font-size:120%;}

#yiv3194497122 #yiv3194497122ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right:none !important;
}
#yiv3194497122

[deandddd]

Sidhartha,

I thought he carried a hammer and scythe, like on the communist flags.

Dean

[sidharthabahadur]

Dean , here is a compact concise article about the short tempered Parshuram and his famous axe...the saying "an axe to grind" might well have originated from Parshuram's usage of it - he had one hell of an axe to grind against the warrior tribes of that time (in the Northwestern part of Indian subcontinent) !

Also , notice reference in Parshuram's story to the sacred cow . It's name was "Kamadhenu" and legend has it that Kamadhenu was the first cow on Earth - which is why cow has been worshipped only in India since pre-historic times & it's only in India that beef is not eaten .

Domestication of cattle coincided with the start of agriculture , which began in the ancient Indian civilisation of the Indus Valley (in present day Pakistan) around 9,000 B.C. :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_agriculture_in_the_Indian_subcontinent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamadhenu

https://www.speakingtree.in/blog/the-axe-of-parshuram

The Axe of Parshuram

In
Vedic times Rishis used to perform yagnas to harness the power of the cosmos for the benefit of the king or Raja and his kingdom. The Raja in turn ensured the livelihood of the priests by gifting them cows. The Puranas, however, refer to a period, when this symbiotic relationship soured, transforming both the kings and their priests forever.

This shift happens before the arrival of Ram and is marked by another of Vishnu’s avatar ,
Parashuram, which literally translates as ‘the axe-bearing Ram’. He is also called Bhargava Ram or ‘Ram of the priestly Bhrigu clan’, distinguishing him from Raghava Ram or ‘Ram of the royal Raghu clan’.

Parshuram’s
grandmother, Satyavati, was a princess, daughter of Gadhi. She was given in marriage to Richika, Parashuram’s grandfather. It was common practice for Rajas to offer their daughters to Rishis, along with cows.

Parshuram’s
father, the Rishi Jamadagni, had received a cow from a king of the Haihaiya clan. The king’s son Kritarjuna or Kartaviryarjuna demanded the
cow back.

When Jamadagni refused, the king took the cow by force, angering Parshuram, who refused to take things lying down. He raised an axe and hacked the king to death .
The king’s sons retaliated by beheading Jamadagni. An infuriated Parshuram went on to slaughter five clans of warriors, some say five generations of warriors, creating five lakes of blood. These lakes were later filled and became the dreaded battlefield of Kurukshetra.
It
is said that Parashuram continued killing every Kshatriya in his path until there were no more warriors left on earth. To restore the Kshatriya clans the widows had to marry priests. There is one story of a
man called Nari-kavacha, meaning ‘one whose armor was made of women’. He survived by hiding in women’s quarters. All women went to this one surviving warrior and from this coward were born all future warriors. Perhaps stories such as these were propaganda crated by Rishis to insult
kings who did not behave as Rajas are supposed to, as custodians rather
than masters of their kingdoms.

Rishis
were known to oppose kings who did not do their duty. There are tales of how Rishis ousted Pururava who went mad after his wife, the nymph Urvashi, left him. There are stories of how Rishis killed Vena who abused his power and exploited the earth. Parshuram’s massacre of kings only stopped when he met Ram, the son of Dashrath, who was so perfect a Raja that he restored Parashuram’s faith in kings and ended his slaughter.

Parshuram
threw his bloodstained axe into the sea but the sea recoiled in horror and drew back revealing a new coast now known as the Konkan and the Malabar, which is why Paashuram worship is most prevalent in the western
coast of India .
Many Rishis and Brahmins shunned Parshuram as they felt he was contaminated with blood and murder. Determined to pass on his knowledge of warfare to priests who could balance the power of kings, Parshuram is
supposed to have gone to a crematorium and resurrected dead priests, who became his students. One theory states that the Chitpavan Brahmans of Pune who dominated Indian political scene in the 18th century
sprang from these resurrected priests hence the name Chitpavan meaning ‘purified from the funeral pyre’. Parshuram even passed on his martial skills today known as Kalaripayattu to families who were of mixed blood,
whose mothers were from warrior clans but fathers were of priestly clans, like, some say, the Nair community in Kerala.

It
is interesting to note that Parshuram’s granduncle was one of those who
abused his royal power against the Rishis. His name was Kaushik and he was Satyavati’s brother. Kaushik tried to steal the cow that belonged to
Rishi Vasishtha. Unlike Jamadagni, Vasishtha was able to defend himself
using his spiritual
powers. Humiliated in defeat, Kaushik decided to acquire spiritual powers for himself. Just as Parshuram had abandoned his priestly ways to
become a warrior, Kaushik gave his warrior ways to become the Rishi Vishwamitra. Just as Parashuram became a warrior to create a better world ,
free of corrupt kings, Vishwamitra became a teacher and a priest to create a better world, where spiritual powers were used to bring material growth. Vishwamitra was a teacher of Ram.

Regards

···

On Friday, September 21, 2018, 8:05:05 AM GMT+5:30, [email protected] [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] [email protected] wrote:

Sidhartha,

I thought he carried a hammer and scythe, like on the communist flags.

Dean

[deandddd]

Sidhartha,

These look nice, and I'll read them.

But I really think that Parashara appeared in the hollow earth, not Goa.

The Hindus have this insistence of India being the cradle of Vedic civilization, but Bal Gangadhar Tilk was the man for me!

Dean

[Soretna]

Well Dean, Tilak would probably be a superior reference in comparison to most others given his background, especially during the timeframe in which he lived. It doesn't seem like many others truly followed in his footsteps after him in this regard though (except perhaps in social reforms), which is both disappointing and sad.

It seems as though it is difficult to really track down some of these truly profound Indians as many of them are squelched. This gentleman seems to be one and Jagadish Chandra Bose was another one who really broke some seriously important scientfic ground, but has been essentially altogether forgotten in terms of his plant research. It would be nice to find other comparable illuminaries.

···

On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 11:20 AM [email protected] [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] [email protected] wrote:

Sidhartha,

These look nice, and I'll read them.

But I really think that Parashara appeared in the hollow earth, not Goa.

The Hindus have this insistence of India being the cradle of Vedic civilization, but Bal Gangadhar Tilk was the man for me!

Dean

[sidharthabahadur]

Soretna, Dean , I agree that Tilak probably came the closest to figuring out the Vedas...There is unmistakable evidence in some of the Rig Vedic hymns that the observer or composer of the hymn was located near the North Pole...example - Sun rises from the South !

From there we can extrapolate that the Vedic people may originally have emerged from the Hollow Earth via the North Polar opening .

Coming to Parshuram , he lived in the Tretayug , by which time the Vedic culture was well established in the Indian subcontinent . It was also in the Tretayug that the Rig Veda (oldest among the 4 Vedas) was collated .

Now here comes the twist in the tale - the Rig Veda itself states that the stories being narrated in it come from a much , much earlier time !

Rig Veda contains several stories from the Satyuga , of the conflict between the Devas (demi gods) & Asuras . The geography is vague in satyuga - rivers and mountains of the Indian subcontinent are not highlighted , the way they are clearly marked out in stories of Tretayug - such as that of Parshuram .

So my gut feel is- during the Sat Yug, Vedic people may have emerged out of Hollow Earth , then made their way towards India ,where that cultural continuity was maintained to a fair degree (though not entirely) . In the Tretayug , Dwapar Yug and the on going Kalyug , the Puranic stories clearly state geographic landmarks of Indian subcontinent .

There is one other intriguing possibility - Vedic people from hollow earth may also have been able to reach Indian subcontinent (over the ages) via some of the numerous cavern openings in the Himalaya mountains or in Central Asia .

Regards

···

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/22/18, Soretna [email protected] [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] <[email protected]> wrote:

Subject: Re: [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] Un-(or less)-adulterated Puranas?
To: "ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW" <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, September 22, 2018, 6:36 PM

       Well Dean, Tilak would probably be
a superior reference in comparison to most others given his
background, especially during the timeframe in which he
lived. It doesn't seem like many others truly followed
in his footsteps after him in this regard though (except
perhaps in social reforms), which is both disappointing and
sad.
It
seems as though it is difficult to really track down some of
these truly profound Indians as many of them are squelched.
This gentleman seems to be one and Jagadish Chandra Bose
was another one who really broke some seriously important
scientfic ground, but has been essentially altogether
forgotten in terms of his plant research. It would be nice
to find other comparable illuminaries.

On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 11:20 AM [email protected] [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] <[email protected]> wrote:

       Sidhartha,
These look nice, and I'll read
them.
But I really
think that Parashara appeared in the hollow earth, not
Goa.
The Hindus have
this insistence of India being the cradle of Vedic
civilization, but Bal Gangadhar Tilk was the man for
me!
Dean

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542 --
   #yiv1431506542ygrp-mkp {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px
0;padding:0 10px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mkp hr {
border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mkp #yiv1431506542hd {
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mkp #yiv1431506542ads {
margin-bottom:10px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mkp .yiv1431506542ad {
padding:0 0;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mkp .yiv1431506542ad p {
margin:0;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mkp .yiv1431506542ad a {
color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-sponsor
#yiv1431506542ygrp-lc {
font-family:Arial;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-sponsor
#yiv1431506542ygrp-lc #yiv1431506542hd {
margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-sponsor
#yiv1431506542ygrp-lc .yiv1431506542ad {
margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542actions {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542activity {
background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542activity span {
font-weight:700;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542activity span:first-child {
text-transform:uppercase;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542activity span a {
color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542activity span span {
color:#ff7900;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542activity span
.yiv1431506542underline {
text-decoration:underline;}

#yiv1431506542 .yiv1431506542attach {
clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
0;width:400px;}

#yiv1431506542 .yiv1431506542attach div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv1431506542 .yiv1431506542attach img {
border:none;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv1431506542 .yiv1431506542attach label {
display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}

#yiv1431506542 .yiv1431506542attach label a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv1431506542 blockquote {
margin:0 0 0 4px;}

#yiv1431506542 .yiv1431506542bold {
font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}

#yiv1431506542 .yiv1431506542bold a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv1431506542 dd.yiv1431506542last p a {
font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv1431506542 dd.yiv1431506542last p span {
margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}

#yiv1431506542 dd.yiv1431506542last p
span.yiv1431506542yshortcuts {
margin-right:0;}

#yiv1431506542 div.yiv1431506542attach-table div div a {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv1431506542 div.yiv1431506542attach-table {
width:400px;}

#yiv1431506542 div.yiv1431506542file-title a, #yiv1431506542
div.yiv1431506542file-title a:active, #yiv1431506542
div.yiv1431506542file-title a:hover, #yiv1431506542
div.yiv1431506542file-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv1431506542 div.yiv1431506542photo-title a,
#yiv1431506542 div.yiv1431506542photo-title a:active,
#yiv1431506542 div.yiv1431506542photo-title a:hover,
#yiv1431506542 div.yiv1431506542photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration:none;}

#yiv1431506542 div#yiv1431506542ygrp-mlmsg
#yiv1431506542ygrp-msg p a span.yiv1431506542yshortcuts {
font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}

#yiv1431506542 .yiv1431506542green {
color:#628c2a;}

#yiv1431506542 .yiv1431506542MsoNormal {
margin:0 0 0 0;}

#yiv1431506542 o {
font-size:0;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542photos div {
float:left;width:72px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542photos div div {
border:1px solid
#666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542photos div label {
color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542reco-category {
font-size:77%;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542reco-desc {
font-size:77%;}

#yiv1431506542 .yiv1431506542replbq {
margin:4px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mlmsg select,
#yiv1431506542 input, #yiv1431506542 textarea {
font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv1431506542
code {
font:115% monospace;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height:1.22em;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-mlmsg #yiv1431506542logo {
padding-bottom:10px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-msg p a {
font-family:Verdana;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-msg
p#yiv1431506542attach-count span {
color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-reco
#yiv1431506542reco-head {
color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-sponsor #yiv1431506542ov
li a {
font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-sponsor #yiv1431506542ov
li {
font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-sponsor #yiv1431506542ov
ul {
margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-text {
font-family:Georgia;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-text p {
margin:0 0 1em 0;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-text tt {
font-size:120%;}

#yiv1431506542 #yiv1431506542ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right:none !important;
}
#yiv1431506542

[deandddd]

Sidhartha,

I would also be interested in seeing some of the comments from the Tamil literature defining geography. I have read, for example, in Churchward's boosk, that there are descriptions of Kanya Kumari, now under water.

I haven't meant to say that the fact that the Puranas make comments about the hollow earth are dependent on the Parashuram story and how a certain word in translated.

The whole storyline about the Sons of Sagara involved going in and out of the hollow portion three times, total.

http://www.holloworbs.com/Sons_of_Sagara.htm (Brahmanda Purana)

And how a word is used, the context, determines much of its meaning. I know a famous translator in Brazil, an Englishman, and he says that if you believe in the dictionary, you might as well believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

Anyway, here is another one that I have just now come across in my perusal of Vedic material. It is from Canto Nine, Chapter Eleven, Verse Fifteen of the Bhagavat Purana. It refers to how Sitadevi, the wife of the Ram Avatar, disappeared from the face of the Earth at the end of the Ram Pastimes, and to where she went!

http://bhagavata.org/canto9/chapter11.html

Go down and read the sentence after Number 15 in blue. "Into the Earth" is in the Sanskrit as the word "vivaram" or "within the earth", according to the word for word translation by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Prabhupad. According to the online spokensanskrit.org, "vivaram" means , variably, "opening, dilation, split, hole, chasm, expansion, widening, breech, hollow". The word "pravivesha" is also in the verse, right after the word vivaram, meaning "went into".

By the way, if this "am" ending of "vivaram" can mean "went into", in the ablative case as in the English preposition "to", then the "Pritivim" word used in relation to Parashuram and his banishing of the warrior caste can mean that the warriors were banished "to" the surface.

Good night.

Dean

[sidharthabahadur]

Dean , true - Sitadevi , wife of Ram (7th Avatar of Lord Vishnu) does go into the Earth , as per what is described in the Ramayana epic. Parshuram also makes an appearance in the Ramayan epic , when he once angrily confronted Ram , only to realise & accept Ram's divinity .

Sons of Sagar is another clear story of hollow earth where the great Rishi Kapila was meditating in hollow earth , when these men barged onto the scene , thus inviting the sage's wrath for having rudely disrupted his deep meditation , who then reduced them to ashes merely by the spiritual power inherent in his searing gaze (using the power of his awakened third eye/pineal gland) .

In the Rig Veda , there are some really strange hymns about the movement of our Sun , which make no sense for an observer in the Indian subcontinent :

1. Sun rises from the South (Except for an observer near the North Pole , this statement makes no sense at all)

2. After the long winter night lasting for months , there is a "revolving" dawn that last for 30 days (Indian subcontinent experiences no such "long winter night")

3. After the long winter night , it takes the Sun a whole month to rise above the horizon (In India , the whole process of sunrise happens in just 2 hours flat)

4. The Devas (demi-gods) live in a place that has 24 hours of sunlight all round the year (this statement can be true only inside hollow earth)

The geography described in the Rig Veda has 9 continents and it seems the continents of inner earth have also been counted...it says that these 9 continents have been arranged like the petals of a lotus flower . This is a telling comment , because in a lotus flower , petals are arranged in concentric circular pattern , the way it would be if one were to take a composite geographical view of continents on outer surface as well as inner surface . Most scholars of the 19th and 20th century had rubbished the geography described in Rig Veda , as "making no sense" at all , probably because they had no concept of hollow earth and that there may exist continents and oceans on the inner surface as well...

**The composite human society described in the Vedas seems to be spread across the outer and inner surfaces of the Earth . The "link" between the two surfaces , seems to have been lost by the time of Dwapar Yug (third of the 4 Yugas) .

So to conclude , yes , the Vedic stories of the Devas (demi-gods) in Satyug , with it's vague geography , might well be from Hollow Earth , whereas the events of the later 3 yugas (Tretayug , Dwapar and the current Kalyug that began 5,000 years ago) occurred in the Indian subcontinent , given the clear geographical references to Indian subcontinent in the stories of Parshuram , Ram and Krishna Avatars .

Regards

···

On Monday, September 24, 2018, 10:24:23 AM GMT+5:30, [email protected] [ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW] [email protected] wrote:

Sidhartha,

I would also be interested in seeing some of the comments from the Tamil literature defining geography. I have read, for example, in Churchward's boosk, that there are descriptions of Kanya Kumari, now under water.

I haven't meant to say that the fact that the Puranas make comments about the hollow earth are dependent on the Parashuram story and how a certain word in translated.

The whole storyline about the Sons of Sagara involved going in and out of the hollow portion three times, total.

http://www.holloworbs.com/Sons_of_Sagara.htm (Brahmanda Purana)

And how a word is used, the context, determines much of its meaning. I know a famous translator in Brazil, an Englishman, and he says that if you believe in the dictionary, you might as well believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

Anyway, here is another one that I have just now come across in my perusal of Vedic material. It is from Canto Nine, Chapter Eleven, Verse Fifteen of the Bhagavat Purana. It refers to how Sitadevi, the wife of the Ram Avatar, disappeared from the face of the Earth at the end of the Ram Pastimes, and to where she went!

http://bhagavata.org/canto9/chapter11.html

Go down and read the sentence after Number 15 in blue. "Into the Earth" is in the Sanskrit as the word "vivaram" or "within the earth", according to the word for word translation by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Prabhupad. According to the online spokensanskrit.org, "vivaram" means , variably, "opening, dilation, split, hole, chasm, expansion, widening, breech, hollow". The word "pravivesha" is also in the verse, right after the word vivaram, meaning "went into".

By the way, if this "am" ending of "vivaram" can mean "went into", in the ablative case as in the English preposition "to", then the "Pritivim" word used in relation to Parashuram and his banishing of the warrior caste can mean that the warriors were banished "to" the surface.

Good night.

Dean

[deandddd]

Tilak's explanation didn't really gather steam because the chauvanist Hindus don't want to accept any kind of Aryan Invasion or migration.

But they have European blood, and it came from Europe; it didn't come from China or the planet Mars.

So they are not comfortable with Tilak, no.

Chers!

[deandddd]

Sidhartha,

You mentioned:

*The composite human society described in the Vedas seems to be spread across the outer and inner surfaces of the Earth . The "link" between the two surfaces , seems to have been lost by the time of Dwapar Yug (third of the 4 Yugas) .

I think that something slipped your mind ...

Jarasandha!!!

http://www.holloworbs.com/Krishna_Comments.htm

[deandddd]

The The Hollow Earth and the Aryan Invasion Theory Revised

http://www.holloworbs.com/aryan_invasion.htm

The red dot on the map is erroneous, I am going to change it tomorrow.

Cheers!

[deandddd]

I have just changed the map!

DDD

[Soretna]

Ah, I see, you're using the new Navy data from Rodney Cluff's news + other discussions we've had. Here's the map comparison of the previous one (left) you had vs new one (right) with the old map rotated and side-by-side in order to show the shift:

[deandddd]

Soretna,

Satellite photos have definitely shown that the opening is on the Russian side.

It can be found in the top two images thusly: To the right of the word "ICE" is The New Siberian Island Group, and the opening is above those islands in the ice. The opening is always at that point, always round and often filled with mist.

http://www.holloworbs.com/Location_Orifice.htm

Cheers!

[sidharthabahadur]

Folks , before we even aspire to shatter common "misconceptions" on such sensitive topics of ethnic/cultural origin , we need to first admit to the formidable challenge it poses , especially because we live in this spiritually dark Kalyug era...

In the spirit of straight talk , I am going to be blunt and what follows may not be very pleasant to read , so here is a STATUTARY WARNING , please do proceed further , only IF you can with a TRULY open mind :-

1. Majority of people in the world do NOT even begin to realise how deep rooted their ethnic/religious/linguistic/regional/cultural BIASES really are !

2. Such ethnic/cultural biases of people never fail to bring out the WORST in them .

3. Very , very few people can actually , really , handle the RAW , UNADULTERATED TRUTH . Most people are so conditioned to believe CRAP and their heads are so full of BULLSHIT , right from childhood , that they cannot even distinguish falsehood from truth , even when the answer is starting them directly in the face .

4. Many people just pretend to be impartial , but are in reality thoroughly unethical and downright DISHONEST when it comes to such "sensitive" matters - especially those who are strongly motivated by ideology , whether of the Right or the Left :))

**5. There exist unbelievable levels of sheer HYPOCRISY and double talk in the hallowed circles of the Academic world , when it comes to such sensitive subjects :)) It's just DISGUSTING !

Now coming back to the topic in question , well , Vedic influence on the Indian subcontinent goes back a very , very , very long time , simply because of the numerous cavern world openings leading from Hollow Earth (Shambhalla/Agartha) to the outer surface , scattered across the vast Himalayan region...!

So yes , while there was a large scale migration , NOT invasion of Vedic people , from the Arctic into South Asia during the ice age , Vedic imprint on the Indian subcontinent predates even that prehistoric migration event - which itself likely occurred tens of thousands of years ago...so for all practical purposes , it's been like FOREVER , especially if you accept the theory of cyclical repopulation of Earth's outer surface - from Hollow Earth , at the start of every new Chaturyug :))

Regards