[allplanets-hollow] Re: Secret Societies?

Dear Blake and others:

I've repented of scathing. However, Branton, like a host of other "former"
or "claim-to-be" Mormons, use a Mormon-of-record-only front, to make claims
of inside knowledge, so that they can freely distort, twist, and misinterpret
whatever they choose to sensationalize for the sake of astonishing the easily
duped and impressed.

As you pointed out, there are those who take these false claims as FACT, all
but swearing that they are verifiable merely because Branton and Icke and
others tell them they are verifiable, and these claims seem like they must be
true because they are represented in print with this supposed air of
authority. These anti-Mormon parasites, and there are many of them besides
Branton and Icke, specialize in taking a thread of truth and distorting,
padding, and intentionally misinterpreting it beyond any truthful
recognition.

It's hard to defend against this type of attack for several reasons.

One reason is because most of those who are willing to get caught up and
believe these pact of misrepresentations aren't about ready to listen to the
simple truth of the matter. It's too simple and unsensational, and they are
the types who are drawn to the sensational aspect of these kind of
publications in the first place.

Another reason is that the arguments are so embroiled in such illogical
reasoning, based on so many half truths, stacked upon so many
misinterpretations, surrounded by so much innuendo, immersed in so many
falsehoods, that it's hard to know where to even begin to untangle the mess.

Another curiosity, is that these sensationalists read each other's material,
and then make additional erroneous claims based upon a compilation of these
other incorrect representations. The mere fact that these obscurely
ridiculous claims keep popping up in multiple sources should be a warning to
the wise reader, however, those who don't know better only take it as another
verifying source.

Mike, I love ya, really, but your claim that, it's a VERIFIABLE FACT that
Joseph Smith was a Mason, or even a Master Mason before he received his
heavenly vision, is absolutely wrong. To what degree of absolutely wrong do
you regard as factually verifiable? And this was only one of several
FACTUALLY VERIFIABLE comments you made which were incorrect. Yet you make
that kind of statement, or should I say, "quote," with no qualms about the
possibility of being absolutely wrong, and then make other incorrect
comments, or quotes, relating to that incorrect statement, and then draw
incorrect conclusions based on all of these incorrect, yet, to your own
satisfaction, factually verifiable comments.

Mike, just because someone writes in a book the claim that something is
factually verifiable, doesn't make it so. Sadly, that's one of the ways in
which they go about duping people, and you have been duped, by duping
experts. As factual resources, these books aren't worth the paper they are
written on. It is difficult for a knowledgeable Mormon to glean out what
little actual fact that might be buried in these books, let alone an
uninformed non-Mormon. And I don't mean to sound scathing here. I'm only
trying to point out the logical truth.

You want truth? Not to be discourteous, but, "I don't think you can handle
the truth."

But, here it goes anyway. When I was nineteen, I was endowed in the Salt
Lake Temple. That means I went through the Temple Ceremony for myself for
the first time. I grew up in Provo, Utah, some 45 miles south of Salt Lake,
and the Salt Lake Temple was our closest, and therefore assigned temple.

Most of the assignments, or jobs in the Temples are voluntary, and are
performed by worthy members. This includes many aspects of maintenance, work
in the laundry, cafeteria, and other areas located in the basement of the
Temple. I spent hundreds of volunteer hours working in the basement of the
Salt Lake Temple. I have been in the crawl spaces reserved for plumbing in
troubleshooting for various problems that have arisen during my service
hours, and in practically every other square foot of these lowest levels of
any accessibility. This includes sump wells and drainage pits. I have been
places in the Salt Lake Temple where I suppose even the President of the LDS
Church has not ventured. This was over at least a dozen years of various
service in the Salt Lake Temple. Sorry, but there are no secret passages, or
hidden rooms, or hollow walls, or forbidden doors, or false floors, or any
such mysterious aspects about the structure. The floor and walls are granite
slabs or blocks. Solid granite columns hold up the upper floors. Most of
the basement rooms are large open areas with the supporting columns visible,
and the other rooms are partitioned off by simple framed walls between these
columns. I can tell you, first hand, that there are absolutely no cavernous
entrances and secret hidden levels underneath the Salt Lake City Temple.
Anyone who claims such, is either outright lying, or quoting a lie. This is
the truth.

Now, you can believe someone who has been there and has seen that every
square foot is accounted for there, and has no reason or hidden agenda to
mislead you;
or you can believe a sensationalist, who, at best, is claiming to have
secondhand knowledge, but, rather, someone who is more probably passing on,
exaggerating, or simply making up false stories for the sake of generating
and promoting a paying audience in furthering their own interests. If this
seems scathing, so be it. But, I will not walk on eggshells either,
especially with something of which I PERSONALLY know to be VERIFIABLE FACT,
and not just someone claiming something to be so, who has no knowledge of
what he claims, but which claim happens to be diametrically opposed to what I
know to be true.

Now, you can still cling to this fantasy by insisting that perhaps I'm the
one being duped by a higher conspiracy to cover-up the real truth. But, I'll
tell you, most of the time I spent in the Temple in these service capacities
were unsupervised, or were in company with other volunteers as myself. There
aren't guards or security personnel lurking around mysterious areas of the
Temple. Believe me, if there were such cavernous structures underneath the
Salt Lake City Temple, I would be the first in line to share that with any
and everyone, and I would be the first in line to explore such caverns, as I
have some spelunking interests and experience as well, and have explored
practically every cave, cavern and abandoned mine along the Wasatch front.

I would insist on knowing for myself why these caverns existed. But, they do
not!

Now, there's the truth about the matter. Let's see how we handle it. It was
shared in good faith and for the honest purpose of informing all who read
this with the truth.

Norlan

Members-

In our attempt to understand how surface institutions are manipulated by undergrounders- not hollow Earthers- I don't think that we have to dwell on the Church of Jesus Christ and the Latter Day Saints. There is not a whole lot of evidence there.

The surface guide in Etidorhpa, however, did make comments about our scientific institutions being inflitrated by proxies of the underground world. How 'bout that NASA? And he mentioned all orders of society. Maybne CNN or the media in general, banking institutions and the universities. I still wonder about the Knights of Malta.

Dharma/Dean

--- In allplanets-hollow@y..., Norlan2000@a... wrote:

Mike, I love ya, really, but your claim that, it's a VERIFIABLE

FACT that

Joseph Smith was a Mason, or even a Master Mason before he

received his

heavenly vision, is absolutely wrong. To what degree of

absolutely wrong do

you regard as factually verifiable? And this was only one of

several

FACTUALLY VERIFIABLE comments you made which were

incorrect. Yet you make

that kind of statement, or should I say, "quote," with no qualms

about the

possibility of being absolutely wrong, and then make other

incorrect

comments, or quotes, relating to that incorrect statement, and

then draw

incorrect conclusions based on all of these incorrect, yet, to

your own

satisfaction, factually verifiable comments.

Mike, just because someone writes in a book the claim that

something is

factually verifiable, doesn't make it so. Sadly, that's one of the

ways in

which they go about duping people, and you have been duped,

by duping

experts. As factual resources, these books aren't worth the

paper they are

written on. It is difficult for a knowledgeable Mormon to glean

out what

little actual fact that might be buried in these books, let alone

an

uninformed non-Mormon. And I don't mean to sound scathing

here. I'm only

trying to point out the logical truth.

Norlan, thanks for your well-reasoned post. Not meaning to be
critical of LDS belief in any regard, I'd like to share with you the
reasons that so many people are as skeptical about the validity
of the Book of Mormon as you are about other people's writings,
and maybe you'll find a little Masonic lore as well:

Was the Book of Mormon copied from a "fantasy fiction" novel,
called The View of the Hebrews by Ethan Smith, that was
published 5 years prior to the Book of Mormon?

Decide for yourself. I will make no judgment here, as this is a
matter of Faith.

Challenges to the Book of Mormon:

http://www.zipmall.com/facts/support/view.htm
http://www.zipmall.com/facts/support/view2.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_migr.htm
http://www.primenet.com/~heuvelc/bom/challenge.htm
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/curt_heuvel/bom_bible.ht
ml
http://www.teachingministry.com/Witnessing/Mormons/Book_of_
Mormon/origin.htm

So you see, this type of argumentation can, and probably will, go
on forever.

You want truth? Not to be discourteous, but, "I don't think you

can handle

the truth."
But, here it goes anyway. When I was nineteen, I was

endowed in the Salt

Lake Temple. That means I went through the Temple

Ceremony for myself for

the first time. I grew up in Provo, Utah, some 45 miles south of

Salt Lake,

and the Salt Lake Temple was our closest, and therefore

assigned temple.

Most of the assignments, or jobs in the Temples are voluntary,

and are

performed by worthy members. This includes many aspects of

maintenance, work

in the laundry, cafeteria, and other areas located in the

basement of the

Temple. I spent hundreds of volunteer hours working in the

basement of the

Salt Lake Temple. I have been in the crawl spaces reserved

for plumbing in

troubleshooting for various problems that have arisen during

my service

hours, and in practically every other square foot of these lowest

levels of

any accessibility. This includes sump wells and drainage pits.

I have been

places in the Salt Lake Temple where I suppose even the

President of the LDS

Church has not ventured. This was over at least a dozen years

of various

service in the Salt Lake Temple. Sorry, but there are no secret

passages, or

hidden rooms, or hollow walls, or forbidden doors, or false

floors, or any

such mysterious aspects about the structure. The floor and

walls are granite

slabs or blocks. Solid granite columns hold up the upper

floors. Most of

the basement rooms are large open areas with the supporting

columns visible,

and the other rooms are partitioned off by simple framed walls

between these

columns. I can tell you, first hand, that there are absolutely no

cavernous

entrances and secret hidden levels underneath the Salt Lake

City Temple.

Anyone who claims such, is either outright lying, or quoting a

lie. This is

the truth.

Now, you can believe someone who has been there and has

seen that every

square foot is accounted for there, and has no reason or

hidden agenda to

mislead you;
or you can believe a sensationalist, who, at best, is claiming to

have

secondhand knowledge, but, rather, someone who is more

probably passing on,

exaggerating, or simply making up false stories for the sake of

generating

and promoting a paying audience in furthering their own

interests. If this

seems scathing, so be it. But, I will not walk on eggshells

either,

especially with something of which I PERSONALLY know to be

VERIFIABLE FACT,

and not just someone claiming something to be so, who has

no knowledge of

what he claims, but which claim happens to be diametrically

opposed to what I

know to be true.

Thanks very much for sharing this information with me. I don't
know if plumbing sub-structures or crawl-spaces would fall in
line with the types of places, or depths, described, though. I DO
believe that you are telling me the truth as far as what you have
seen, experienced, and know, however. In fact, I'm going to pass
your information on to other researchers so that they can decide
for themselves and consider what you've said!

Thanks again!

--Mike

Norlan, You are implying I, and others are so gullible we are prepared to believe every sensationalist scandal and bit of heresay, to add fervour to our conspiracy theory. I love a mystery like everyone else, but I need to know all the the facts before I will form an opinion on whether it's truth, if it's claims made by Joseph Smith or David Icke. Which is why I am curious about the Templars, amongst other things, but I'm very skeptical about a 'shape-shifting' reptile "race," rather it seems to be a 'Serpent Cult.' However, prior to this 'discussion' I had no knowledge of Mormonism, so I did some research and found it to be quite misogynistic, but then maybe as a non-Mormon I just don't comprehend the doctrine, for example;

In the Mormon temple wedding ceremony, the man and the woman are joined "for time and eternity". The woman, during the ceremony, must tell the man what her temple secret name is. He does not tell her his. It is by this name, according to the Mormons, that the man will resurrect her IF she's faithful. In Mormon heaven, men will have multiple wives and create worlds. These wives will make spirit children and work in the heavenly kitchens (I'd rather go to Hell) under their husband's direction. In the endowment ceremony, the men sit on one side and the women sit on the other side (of the room). The first oath is for the women to stand and take an oath to obey their husbands. Next the men stand and take an oath to obey 'god'.

Is this just more lies from Icke? Please say it is!

Men have no jurisdiction over my salvation, only God.

Hazel

ยทยทยท

----- Original Message -----

From:
[email protected]

To: [email protected]

Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:05 AM

Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Re: Secret Societies?

Dear Blake and others:

I've repented of scathing. However, Branton, like a host of other "former"
or "claim-to-be" Mormons, use a Mormon-of-record-only front, to make claims
of inside knowledge, so that they can freely distort, twist, and misinterpret
whatever they choose to sensationalize for the sake of astonishing the easily
duped and impressed.

As you pointed out, there are those who take these false claims as FACT, all
but swearing that they are verifiable merely because Branton and Icke and
others tell them they are verifiable, and these claims seem like they must be
true because they are represented in print with this supposed air of
authority. These anti-Mormon parasites, and there are many of them besides
Branton and Icke, specialize in taking a thread of truth and distorting,
padding, and intentionally misinterpreting it beyond any truthful
recognition.

It's hard to defend against this type of attack for several reasons.

One reason is because most of those who are willing to get caught up and
believe these pact of misrepresentations aren't about ready to listen to the
simple truth of the matter. It's too simple and unsensational, and they are
the types who are drawn to the sensational aspect of these kind of
publications in the first place.

Another reason is that the arguments are so embroiled in such illogical
reasoning, based on so many half truths, stacked upon so many
misinterpretations, surrounded by so much innuendo, immersed in so many
falsehoods, that it's hard to know where to even begin to untangle the mess.

Another curiosity, is that these sensationalists read each other's material,
and then make additional erroneous claims based upon a compilation of these
other incorrect representations. The mere fact that these obscurely
ridiculous claims keep popping up in multiple sources should be a warning to
the wise reader, however, those who don't know better only take it as another
verifying source.

Mike, I love ya, really, but your claim that, it's a VERIFIABLE FACT that
Joseph Smith was a Mason, or even a Master Mason before he received his
heavenly vision, is absolutely wrong. To what degree of absolutely wrong do
you regard as factually verifiable? And this was only one of several
FACTUALLY VERIFIABLE comments you made which were incorrect. Yet you make
that kind of statement, or should I say, "quote," with no qualms about the
possibility of being absolutely wrong, and then make other incorrect
comments, or quotes, relating to that incorrect statement, and then draw
incorrect conclusions based on all of these incorrect, yet, to your own
satisfaction, factually verifiable comments.

Mike, just because someone writes in a book the claim that something is
factually verifiable, doesn't make it so. Sadly, that's one of the ways in
which they go about duping people, and you have been duped, by duping
experts. As factual resources, these books aren't worth the paper they are
written on. It is difficult for a knowledgeable Mormon to glean out what
little actual fact that might be buried in these books, let alone an
uninformed non-Mormon. And I don't mean to sound scathing here. I'm only
trying to point out the logical truth.

You want truth? Not to be discourteous, but, "I don't think you can handle
the truth."
But, here it goes anyway. When I was nineteen, I was endowed in the Salt
Lake Temple. That means I went through the Temple Ceremony for myself for
the first time. I grew up in Provo, Utah, some 45 miles south of Salt Lake,
and the Salt Lake Temple was our closest, and therefore assigned temple.
Most of the assignments, or jobs in the Temples are voluntary, and are
performed by worthy members. This includes many aspects of maintenance, work
in the laundry, cafeteria, and other areas located in the basement of the
Temple. I spent hundreds of volunteer hours working in the basement of the
Salt Lake Temple. I have been in the crawl spaces reserved for plumbing in
troubleshooting for various problems that have arisen during my service
hours, and in practically every other square foot of these lowest levels of
any accessibility. This includes sump wells and drainage pits. I have been
places in the Salt Lake Temple where I suppose even the President of the LDS
Church has not ventured. This was over at least a dozen years of various
service in the Salt Lake Temple. Sorry, but there are no secret passages, or
hidden rooms, or hollow walls, or forbidden doors, or false floors, or any
such mysterious aspects about the structure. The floor and walls are granite
slabs or blocks. Solid granite columns hold up the upper floors. Most of
the basement rooms are large open areas with the supporting columns visible,
and the other rooms are partitioned off by simple framed walls between these
columns. I can tell you, first hand, that there are absolutely no cavernous
entrances and secret hidden levels underneath the Salt Lake City Temple.
Anyone who claims such, is either outright lying, or quoting a lie. This is
the truth.

Now, you can believe someone who has been there and has seen that every
square foot is accounted for there, and has no reason or hidden agenda to
mislead you;
or you can believe a sensationalist, who, at best, is claiming to have
secondhand knowledge, but, rather, someone who is more probably passing on,
exaggerating, or simply making up false stories for the sake of generating
and promoting a paying audience in furthering their own interests. If this
seems scathing, so be it. But, I will not walk on eggshells either,
especially with something of which I PERSONALLY know to be VERIFIABLE FACT,
and not just someone claiming something to be so, who has no knowledge of
what he claims, but which claim happens to be diametrically opposed to what I
know to be true.

Now, you can still cling to this fantasy by insisting that perhaps I'm the
one being duped by a higher conspiracy to cover-up the real truth. But, I'll
tell you, most of the time I spent in the Temple in these service capacities
were unsupervised, or were in company with other volunteers as myself. There
aren't guards or security personnel lurking around mysterious areas of the
Temple. Believe me, if there were such cavernous structures underneath the
Salt Lake City Temple, I would be the first in line to share that with any
and everyone, and I would be the first in line to explore such caverns, as I
have some spelunking interests and experience as well, and have explored
practically every cave, cavern and abandoned mine along the Wasatch front.
I would insist on knowing for myself why these caverns existed. But, they do
not!

Now, there's the truth about the matter. Let's see how we handle it. It was
shared in good faith and for the honest purpose of informing all who read
this with the truth.

Norlan

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Members-

My goodness, if we don't stay on topic, some of the new members are going to get the wrong impression.

Let's take discussion of the Mormon church off list. We have all spoken out piece.

DD