[allplanets-hollow] Help!

ALLPLANETS-HOLLOW Yahoo Group (Old Posts)
1

Leslee,

The health code (called the Word of Wisdom) of the LDS church does not stem from Brigham Young announcing that there should be no more drinking or smoking or partying. It originated with Joseph Smith, whose wife Emma grew tired of wiping up spit tobacco from the church floor after meetings. She thought it was disgusting and unbecoming of righteous men. Upon complaining to Joseph, he inquired of the Lord and received a health code revelation that not only describes tobacco, strong and hot drink as unhealthy, but also advises us what to consume: fruit, grains, and all that is healthy. It even discusses the consumption of meat. Indeed, the announcement was ahead of its time, for no one knew that tobacco was harmful back then. At first it was a mere guideline and has been open to interpretation. After all, what constitutes "strong and hot" drink?

Over the past few decades, with the onset of drugs and increased tobacco and alcohol use, this guideline has wisely become an enforced commandment, as it pertains to tobacco, drugs, and alcohol. Breaking this commandment does not strip a Mormon of his or her membership. All it does means is that in order to be considered worthy enter into a temple (not a Sunday church building) to perform certain ordinances, a person must abide this law.

Here's something you'll never hear a coward Christian, money grubbing preacher say, but Joseph Smith was the first to say it:

"If we want to go to that place where God is, we must act like God."

Can it get any simpler? There are rules, both on earth and in heaven, and it's foolish to pretend that Christ doesn't enforce them. To say that a commandment came from a man and not God is inaccurate if that man was chosen to be God's mouthpiece, because, clearly, that's how God has operated throughout history.

Blake

···

-----Original Message-----
From: AstroCafe [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 3:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Help!

----- Original Message -----

From:
H. Wm. Rhea IIITo: [email protected]

Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:09 PM

Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Help!

``

<Anyway, if you get the idea that I don't believe in Atlantis or LeMuria or
little or large grey aliens, you are right.  I believe that many legends are myths that got started through embellishment and exaggeration. Although Ihave seen things that I can't explain and need no exaggeration or

embellishment to sound grand.>

Hi--

I have been following this thread.  Interesting idea about myths.  I, myself, believe that man throughout time has had visions--prophetic dreams, etc.  And, I believe that if we were able to talk with the 'one' who had the vision we would probably be a lot more knowledgeable today then we are.  But, a vision, even for the one experiencing it, is hard to decipher, as most come through in symbols. It is a bit like an abstract painting.  If all of us in this group were to be shown a painting, and then asked for an interpretation, I would bet that there would be as many different interpretations as there were people on this list.  Who would be right?  Probably all of us would be able to see a hint of truth, but I doubt that any of us would be absolutely correct in describing what the artist intended.  The artist may not even know.

But, lets take the Mormons for an example.  I  only select them because a very distant grandmother of mine was one--Patty Bartlett Sessions.  I have her diary, which began with her walk across the states from the east coast to Salt Lake City with Brigham Young, her good friend. She was close to 50 at the time they made their travels west and lived to be 99.  I have 45 years worth of her daily writing.  Unfortunately, she was not a wordy woman, and her diary is a like reading a daily scientific log.

Her diary is revealing in how religions/myths/doctrines change over time.  For instance, she talks about the Saturday night get-togethers, and yes, liquor was served and cigarettes smoked.  She talks about how they healed so and so while laying on hands.  How they talked in tongues.  What psychic visions they had...etc.  Now, today, we know that the Mormon's do not indulge in either alcohol or tobacco.  How did this become a rule?  Well, according to her dairy Brigham Young rose to the pulpit one Sunday morning after a long Saturday night and could barely see his parishioners due to the smoky church--and he was not feeling too well after a night of partying, therefore in a cranky mood--so, right then and there he made a new Mormon Rule--forbidding alcohol & cigarettes. I do not know much about the Mormon religion today, as I am not Mormon, but my mom and dad's parents were.  And, I know that if the above rule was broken, then a Mormon was forbidden to go through the Temple in Salt Lake City.  I know because it happened to my mom's mom.  This rule came from a man, not a God.  A preacher who became legend. I only use this as an example for "how" legends become altered only because it is the only one I have written proof of.

I can also read her dairy and see how over the years there were many changes in the Mormon beliefs.  And, since we are all human, I would bet that this has happened with every religion ever born.  Or prophecy.  Little changes over time that in the end add up to huge discrepancies. Add in the fact that many of the original books were burned for one reason or another, those left may have been written in code, or tampered with, or translated by a third, fourth or fifth party.  In light of how history has been recorded through time I would say practically anything could be true, or not true.  But, I would bet that there is some truth in every myth or prophecy or religion if we dig deep enough and piece together the puzzle. I have often wondered if religions are different from one another only because they were written for different cultures, yet if we looked hard enough we may discover they are pretty much based on the same principles?  Some are more romantic than others, some crude, others down right scary, and maybe it is all because of the artist who wrote it, or the translator's style of dialect.  I think all the books hold clues to the mystery of this planet and it's evolution, and what may still come.

I personally believe that the earth must be hollow, only because I do not see how it could keep on spinning if it weren't.  Not very scientific, but that is my thought.  I also think that the lands have changed over time, and that there probably was an Atlantis, which could be known or referred to  by many names.  I think that there, at one time, was a more perfect man than we are today, and one reason alone is because our life span is what I consider short compared to our technology.  I do not think we can discount aliens, UFO's, angels, spirits, etc.  What looks like an angel to me may look like a grey to another.  I do not think these visions/sightings or legends, at least on a whole, were embellishments and exaggerations made to impress someone, or sound grand. I think it is more than that  I think they are true, at least to the one who witnessed the experience, and they were not trying  to sound grand, but to understand what they had seen, so they were talked about, and eventually recorded.   What we need to do is figure a way to decipher the history.

In thought, Leslee

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2

--- In allplanets-hollow@y..., "Frei, Blake" <blake_frei@j...> wrote:

"If we want to go to that place where God is, we must act like

God."

This is really going OT for this list, and I apologize in advance.

Here is the non-LDS Christian perspective on this same topic.

From

http://www.grmi.org/Richard_Riss/sermons/0008.html

During the time of the Reformation, one issue that was hotly
contested was whether a person is justified by faith or by works.
The Catholics emphasized James 2:24, which states that "a
man is justified by works, and not by faith alone," while the
Protestants responded with Galatians 2:16 and Romans 3:28,
according to which "a man is not justified by the works of the
Law but through faith."

Which is it? Are we justified by faith, as Paul says, or by
works, as James says? James was worried about people who
accepted Christian doctrine as true but who did not live
accordingly. He wrote that "even the demons believe and
shudder." Paul, on the other hand, was worried about those who
thought that if they followed the law, they would automatically
be acceptable to God. Of course, right standing before God
results neither from believing the right doctrines nor from going
through the right motions.

It's fine to perform good works, but that will not earn a
person right standing before God, since the Lord is not
interested merely in whether we engage in good deeds. He
wants to know why we are performing those deeds. Is it in order
to look good? Is it so that other people will think highly of us?
Is it in order to escape punishment? Do we engage in them so
that others will be indebted to us and we will therefore have a
measure of control over them?

···

------
More at the URL above. This URL also has some similar yet
worthwhile points:

http://www.calvaryem.org/dow/JUSTIFY.HTM
------
I believe that Paul said something to the effect of "All things in
moderation." Jesus "did away" with the dietary laws of the Old
Testament, and said essentially "Eat what you will, as long as
you do it with thanksgiving (to God)," which is the basis for the
Christian habit of "saying grace" or praying over a meal. In other
words, consecrate the food and drink in this way, and it will truly
by used to the nourishment of the body.

Jesus also said "You hypocrites. You criticized John the Baptist
when ate locusts and drank water from the wild, and you criticize
the son of man when he comes eating and drinking." "Drinking"
refers to alcoholic wine, not "grapejuice," as wine was made,
stored, and utilized daily in the middle east of the time, and
refrigeration was not an option to halt fermentation. The Jews
would not have halted fermentation anyway, wine was part of
their diet and culture, and of course Christ's first miracle was to
create a batch of "the good stuff" from water, for a wedding and at
his mother's request. Due to his habit of dining with the
common man, Christ was accused of being a drunkard and a
glutton (check the New Testament). He was neither, but this
was the source of his condemnation of his critics, as
paraphrased above. And of course, the Apostle Paul said "Take
a little wine daily, as it is good for the body."

So there you have the other side of the coin. "Works" and "rules"
don't guarantee anyone entrance to heaven, since all are
hopelessly imperfect. Only faith and acceptance of a "payment"
for our inadequacies (transgressions, sins, or "rule-breaking"),
in the form of the perfect sacrifice of the God-Man Christ, will do
the trick. Eating rules, drinking rules, etc. are meaningless
according to Christ, who enjoyed wine himself. What matters is
the inner intent and acceptance of Christ as Lord. That's the
general Protestant interpretation, as pretty clearly defined in
Scripture anyway.

A point which is to be noted is that, as a follower of Christ with
the Holy Spirit indwelling, one does not engage in drunkeness,
various addictions, etc., because it is not "God-like," as Blake
said. The overpowering urges and desires to do such things are
negated or removed by genuine faith.

--Mike

3

From:
Frei, Blake

To: '[email protected]'

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 8:33 AM

Subject: RE: [allplanets-hollow] Help!

Blake wrote;

"If we want to go to that place where God is, we must act like God."

Not disputing this at all. Leslee

From: AstroCafe [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 3:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Help!

From:
H. Wm. Rhea IIITo: [email protected]

Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:09 PM

Subject: Re: [allplanets-hollow] Help!

``

  <Anyway, if you get the idea that I don't believe in Atlantis or LeMuria or
  little or large grey aliens, you are right.  I believe that many legends are myths that got started through embellishment and exaggeration. Although Ihave seen things that I can't explain and need no exaggeration or
  embellishment to sound grand.>

Hi--

  I have been following this thread.  Interesting idea about myths.  I, myself, believe that man throughout time has had visions--prophetic dreams, etc.  And, I believe that if we were able to talk with the 'one' who had the vision we would probably be a lot more knowledgeable today then we are.  But, a vision, even for the one experiencing it, is hard to decipher, as most come through in symbols. It is a bit like an abstract painting.  If all of us in this group were to be shown a painting, and then asked for an interpretation, I would bet that there would be as many different interpretations as there were people on this list.  Who would be right?  Probably all of us would be able to see a hint of truth, but I doubt that any of us would be absolutely correct in describing what the artist intended.  The artist may not even know.

  But, lets take the Mormons for an example.  I  only select them because a very distant grandmother of mine was one--Patty Bartlett Sessions.  I have her diary, which began with her walk across the states from the east coast to Salt Lake City with Brigham Young, her good friend. She was close to 50 at the time they made their travels west and lived to be 99.  I have 45 years worth of her daily writing.  Unfortunately, she was not a wordy woman, and her diary is a like reading a daily scientific log.

  Her diary is revealing in how religions/myths/doctrines change over time.  For instance, she talks about the Saturday night get-togethers, and yes, liquor was served and cigarettes smoked.  She talks about how they healed so and so while laying on hands.  How they talked in tongues.  What psychic visions they had...etc.  Now, today, we know that the Mormon's do not indulge in either alcohol or tobacco.  How did this become a rule?  Well, according to her dairy Brigham Young rose to the pulpit one Sunday morning after a long Saturday night and could barely see his parishioners due to the smoky church--and he was not feeling too well after a night of partying, therefore in a cranky mood--so, right then and there he made a new Mormon Rule--forbidding alcohol & cigarettes. I do not know much about the Mormon religion today, as I am not Mormon, but my mom and dad's parents were.  And, I know that if the above rule was broken, then a Mormon was forbidden to go through the Temple in Salt Lake City.  I know because it happened to my mom's mom.  This rule came from a man, not a God.  A preacher who became legend. I only use this as an example for "how" legends become altered only because it is the only one I have written proof of.

  I can also read her dairy and see how over the years there were many changes in the Mormon beliefs.  And, since we are all human, I would bet that this has happened with every religion ever born.  Or prophecy.  Little changes over time that in the end add up to huge discrepancies. Add in the fact that many of the original books were burned for one reason or another, those left may have been written in code, or tampered with, or translated by a third, fourth or fifth party.  In light of how history has been recorded through time I would say practically anything could be true, or not true.  But, I would bet that there is some truth in every myth or prophecy or religion if we dig deep enough and piece together the puzzle. I have often wondered if religions are different from one another only because they were written for different cultures, yet if we looked hard enough we may discover they are pretty much based on the same principles?  Some are more romantic than others, some crude, others down right scary, and maybe it is all because of the artist who wrote it, or the translator's style of dialect.  I think all the books hold clues to the mystery of this planet and it's evolution, and what may still come.

  I personally believe that the earth must be hollow, only because I do not see how it could keep on spinning if it weren't.  Not very scientific, but that is my thought.  I also think that the lands have changed over time, and that there probably was an Atlantis, which could be known or referred to  by many names.  I think that there, at one time, was a more perfect man than we are today, and one reason alone is because our life span is what I consider short compared to our technology.  I do not think we can discount aliens, UFO's, angels, spirits, etc.  What looks like an angel to me may look like a grey to another.  I do not think these visions/sightings or legends, at least on a whole, were embellishments and exaggerations made to impress someone, or sound grand. I think it is more than that  I think they are true, at least to the one who witnessed the experience, and they were not trying  to sound grand, but to understand what they had seen, so they were talked about, and eventually recorded.   What we need to do is figure a way to decipher the history.

In thought, Leslee

  Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.250 / Virus Database: 123 - Release Date: 4/18/01

Will "Argyll" Rhea wrote:

` To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

`

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [Yahoo! Terms of Service](http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).

` To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

`

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [Yahoo! Terms of Service](http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/).

···

----- Original Message -----

-----Original Message-----

----- Original Message -----

4

I was just answering Blake's posting about Atlantis, I do not want to get
off topic either. And I do NOT want to get into a religion vs. non-religion
discussion. I like to read about where certain religions or non-religions
have idea's or doubts about HET.

When I post that I do not believe in Atlantis and how I THINK it may have
come about, I am just expressing a belief. In this case I was expressing a
belief in response to Blakes post about the 10 ten tribes coming from the
Hollow Earth (which was ON TOPIC). It went off topic when people start
critizing my belief. That isn't right.

I know that I do believe things that other may not believe that are on this
list and I don't believe some things. After an opinion is expressed can't
everyone just let it go? If not, then we are forced to respond when
attacked or commented on. I know that not all on this list of LDS or
believe that, and that is okay. I will not attack your beliefs. When you
make an opinion know as I did to Blake about Atlantis, I will just let it go
and be comforted in knowing what you believe, please afford me the same
courtesy.

Will "Argyll" Rhea

p.s. Just for the record, here are some other things I don't believe in:

I do NOT believe in Grey Aliens
I do not believe in Pleidian (SP) or others.

I DO believe in gnomes, leprechauns, giants, etc..

These are my beliefs and to not represent the beliefs of any group that I
may be a member of. When I see posts about these subjects I DO read them,
then I delete them if they are not deemed what I think is keepable. But I
will not knock people for believing in them.

BTW: This list does get way off topic with these items and sometimes I see
no connection to HET.

Will

5

--- In allplanets-hollow@y..., "H. Wm. Rhea III" <rhea@f...> wrote:
\

I do NOT believe in Grey Aliens
I do not believe in Pleidian (SP) or others.

I DO believe in gnomes, leprechauns, giants, etc..

I agree with this in general.

The trick is to define what they ALL are, beyond the simplified
concepts which have come to us through folktales, since they all
exhibit similar habits, dispositions, and origins. Grays and
gnomes, or the "gray neighbors" of some Celtic peoples?
Different masks or get-ups, same players.

--Mike

6

Mike I recently acquired a book which I read through twice. It comes from
an LDS perspective, but overall Christian in general. The author sticks to
the subject of UFO's. He gets to the point that he beleives in them, but
that many of them may be Satanic deceptions (whether or not using real flesh
and blood creatures or spiritual images). The book is a bit compelling. I
will get the title for you if you are interested.

It has nothing to do with HET, caverns, etc... But sometimes strange
creatures and HET do overlap.

Will "Argyll" Rhea

···

on 05/09/2001 1:32 PM, [email protected] at [email protected] wrote:

I agree with this in general.

The trick is to define what they ALL are, beyond the simplified
concepts which have come to us through folktales, since they all
exhibit similar habits, dispositions, and origins. Grays and
gnomes, or the "gray neighbors" of some Celtic peoples?
Different masks or get-ups, same players.

7

--- In allplanets-hollow@y..., "H. Wm. Rhea III" <rhea@f...> wrote:

on 05/09/2001 1:32 PM, MOTTIMORPH@E... at
Mike I recently acquired a book which I read through twice. It

comes from

an LDS perspective, but overall Christian in general. The

author sticks to

the subject of UFO's. He gets to the point that he beleives in

them, but

that many of them may be Satanic deceptions (whether or not

using real flesh

and blood creatures or spiritual images). The book is a bit

compelling. I

will get the title for you if you are interested.

It has nothing to do with HET, caverns, etc... But sometimes

strange

creatures and HET do overlap.

Will "Argyll" Rhea

Will, this is in fact part of the premise of my book.

I'd be interested in seeing his work, too, if you recall the title.

BTW, I thought you might find this post from fantasticreality to be
interesting as well.

Your friend,

--Mike

···

--------

From: [email protected]
Date: Wed May 9, 2001 7:18 pm
Subject: A story from a Shaver friend

List members:

In the Sept., 2000 issue of FATE magazine, a letter from John A.
Drennan of Fairdealing, Missouri was published.

As a result of reading this letter, I called Mr. Drennan, an elderly
gent, one evening. He was incredibly lucid and knowledgeable,
not a "crackpot" by any stretch of the imagination, and highly
logical and articulate.

I had a very interesting phone conversation with Mr. Drennan.
He is 76 years old and full of information. Contact had to be by
phone, as he doesn't have e-mail or access to the internet. He
does have a computer.

Apparently he and his wife were close friends of the Shavers,
and used to go stay with them in Summit for days at a stretch. He
hinted that many strange things were witnessed around Shaver
and Shaver's home, by both his wife and himself.

He indicates that as far as he knows, the majority of Shaver's
"rock books--" the rocks themselves--were thrown away after his
death. At least according to what Mrs. Shaver told him. I got the
impression that he is indeed a treasure-trove of info about both
Shaver and Palmer, and he seemed to hint of some things that
few know. Apparently he spent a lot of time in discussion with
both of them, particularly Shaver, and he's got an excellent take
on Shaver's philosophy (which he doesn't agree with in every
regard). He indicated that he and Palmer were in agreement
that there was a mystical or spiritual (what I would probably call
"electromagnetic") connection or undertone to Shaver's
"memories" or experiences, but of course Shaver
remained a hard materialist about the whole thing....

Drennan's story about Ray Palmer's "friends" has a sinister note
to it, to say the least. With friends like that, who needs enemas?
I mean, they supposedly dictated to him where he went, lived,
etc. Pretty creepy surrendering of one's free will, if true.

Drennan's letter in FATE is just one of his personal accounts,
and I found it very interesting. It follows, so forgive any typos:

---------------------------
LETTER TO FATE, SEPT., 2000
---------------------------

Ray Palmer's Friends

I had been reading Ray Palmer's work for several years, from
Amazing Stories onward. After the Hidden World Series was
reprinted by Amherst Press, I decided that I had to meet Palmer
and Richard Shaver. So one Friday I took off from work and drove
to Amherst to look them up. I was living in South St. Paul,
Minnesota, at the time. My wife and I arrived in Amherst about
noon. I remembered Ray mentioning in his editorials that he had
coffee at a certain restaurant. So we went there and inquired if he
had been in. They said he had, and that he would be back later
for his afternoon coffee. We drove around looking the country
over for a while, and then went back to wait for Palmer. My wife
asked how I would know him, since I had never met him. I said
from his editorials I believed I could pick him out in a crowd.

A few minutes later a car pulled up behind mine and a little
fellow got out and went into the restaurant.

"That's him," I said.

"Are you going inside to meet him?" my wife asked.

"No, we will wait till he comes out."

When he came out and went to his car, I got out and asked, "Are
you Ray Palmer?"

He turned around and said, "Yes I am."

I introduced myself, and told him I had been reading his work for
a long time. By this time my wife had gotten out of the car and I
introduced her too. He asked where we were from and we told
him. "Why don't you come out to the house for supper? I'm sure
my wife Margie would like to meet your wife Margie." We all had a
good laugh at that.

We followed him home, and were introduced to his Margie. The
two Margies hit it off right away, and that tickled Ray to no end.
While the women cooked supper we talked. We covered a lot of
ground. When the subject of Hidden World came up, I told him I
wanted to meet Richard Shaver. Ray told me that he had moved
to to Summit, Arkansas. I got Shaver's address and vowed to
visit him on my vacation.

We left the Palmer's home after supper. On the outskirts of town
we stopped at a roadside park to take a little nap before driving
back to St. Paul. Zara, our little dog and traveling companion,
crawled up on my chest where she always stood guard while I
slept. I hadn't been asleep very long before she woke me up
growling. I looked up at the windshield and there were several
gnome-like faces peering through. There were others peering
through the door windows. There must have been at least ten or
fifteen of them.

I yelled at Margie to take a look, but when I did they scrambled
away. When I sat up they were running into the bushes. I turned
on the car lights and still didn't see anything—they just
disappeared. I later found out that they were Ray's friends. They
just wanted to check me out for themselves. I later had some
similar experiences with Richard Shaver's friends but that is
another story.

I kept in contact with Ray until I moved to Missouri. One day I read
that he was planning to go to Florida to visit his grand children. I
told my wife that Ray would not see Wisconsin again alive. I told
her of a warning he had gotten from his friends. They warned
him not to leave Wisconsin, for they could not protect him
elsewhere. Ray was getting old, and went, I guess, to keep
peace in the family. My prediction came true—his enemies got
him in Florida.

—John A. Drennan, Fairdealing, Mo.

-----------

I have Drennan's contact info. I should probably contact him
again for a follow-up.

--Mike

8

Mike, here is the info:

Aliens & UFO's: Messengers or Deceivers?
By James L. Thompson
ISBN: 0-88290-469-8
Published in 1993
Horizon Publishers & Distributors
P.O. Box 490 Bountiful, Utah 84011-0490

I don't know if the book is even available any longer through any regular
channels. But it does make some interesting points.

Will Rhea
[email protected]

···

on 05/09/2001 2:21 PM, [email protected] at [email protected] wrote:

Will, this is in fact part of the premise of my book.

I'd be interested in seeing his work, too, if you recall the title.

BTW, I thought you might find this post from fantasticreality to be
interesting as well.

Your friend,