[allplanets-hollow] Fortean Encounters, Religion, and Staying on Topic

Thanks for the reply, Mike. No offense taken, of course.

I think you tend to view Joseph Smith like many non Mormons--you're not
comfortable with his story, his claims, what other people thought of him or
now think of him, and you would never consider membership in the church,
even for no other reason than because you don't want to be "one of them."

Hence, Joseph must be a fraud if he was not a genuine prophet. But to you
and those who share similar views, you mustn't judge a man based on the
historical opinions of his enemies. Or read history and think, "Naw. Too
weird." Was Abraham's story weird? Noah's? Yet they are believed.

Matt 7, 20: "By their fruits ye shall know them."

One must look at what Joseph has wrought. The Book of Mormon, a 300,000-word
history, was brought about in a mere sixty days by an uneducated farm boy.
An impossible feat. How long did you work on your book, Mike? You should
have an idea of what goes into writing a book.

A fraudulent liar and false prophet could not have established a church that
is so successful, so genuine, widespread, and true to the ancient church, as
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It stands, by itself, as
the greatest testimony of Joseph Smith.

Blake

OK Dean--No more religion out of me!

ยทยทยท

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [allplanets-hollow] Fortean Encounters, Religion, and Staying
on Topic --- In allplanets-hollow@y..., "Frei, Blake" <blake_frei@j...> wrote:

So when Joseph Smith said we must act like God, this concept

encompasses the

characteristics and attributes of God: love, selflessness,

charity, and all

these behaviors that will enhance us spiritually. Joseph Smith

was able to

make this statement because he understood something that

no one else on

earth understood: the nature of God.

Blake, thanks for your perspective, as you know we've had this
type of discussion before.

I find interest in ALL religious and folklore traditions, particularly
as they pertain to the HET. Of course I have a Book of Mormon,
which I read years ago. Whereas this is a Hollow Earth list, I
don't think that I should veer any further into this topic or
discussion here. I believe that we are free or should be free, as
Americans and as human beings around the world, to worship
as we see fit. However, understand that you are operating under
a premise which I do not share as "gospel," which is:

Joseph Smith was able to
make this statement because he understood something that
no one else on
earth understood: the nature of God.

I know that the New Testament states *emphatically* that Christ
was the "fulfilllment" of ALL prophecies, regarding
righteousness or anything else. Therefore, from my
non-denominational point of view, his birth, life, death and
resurrection was the spiritual culmination for mankind, and the
way has been paved. New prophets, with "new" revelations or
books, only interest me from a fortean research perspective.
This does not deny that people have continued to have
paranormal "revelatory" experiences, but I do not buy into them
as I've studied the entire field for far too long, and the patterns of
"revelation" and subsequent manipulation become clear.
Understand that I find the entire Joseph Smith story to be quite
fortean in both content and feel, similar to many, many other
such stories from both antiquity to the present day. There are
many parallels with his encounters with "Moroni" and his
heavenly pseudo-opthamology or optometry, conveniently
"disappearing" tablets or technology, his appearance, his
message, etc., and many encounters with other "anomalous"
entities, ranging from so-called ufonauts to "BVMs" (Blessed
Virgin Marys), which also apparently exist and make
appearances, give books or other gifts which are "revelatory" but
later disappear (I refer you to THE ANDREASSON AFFAIR, and
its sequel, both by Raymond Fowler) but whose words, actions,
and sources are, for me, highly suspect at best.

I have nothing against any other religion, or subset or derivation
of a religion. It's just that, from both a religious and fortean point
of view, I don't buy into the underlying premise as you have
stated it (above).

Best, and hope you're not offended,

--Mike

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--- In allplanets-hollow@y..., "Frei, Blake" <blake_frei@j...> wrote:

One must look at what Joseph has wrought. The Book of

Mormon, a 300,000-word

history, was brought about in a mere sixty days by an

uneducated farm boy.

An impossible feat. How long did you work on your book, Mike?

You should

have an idea of what goes into writing a book.

A fraudulent liar and false prophet could not have established

a church that

is so successful, so genuine, widespread, and true to the

ancient church, as

the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It stands, by

itself, as

the greatest testimony of Joseph Smith.

Blake

Blake,

This IS on-topic after all!

I do NOT believe that Joseph Smith was a liar. He had a
genuine experience, and he got his "book" information from
someone or something, probably just like he said. I believe he
was absolutely sincere in his belief that he had had a visit from
one of "God's messengers."

It's the "fortean" nature of the revelation and the articles involved
that I'm talking about. Remember, the angel Gabriel allegedly
"dictated" the Koran to Mohammed. Is this any less or more
believeable? The Koran, too, states that Jesus is the Messiah!
Few westerners are aware of this. But it is essentially a book of a
religion which is, more often than not, opposed to Christianity
(no, I'm not saying that LDS is). So which is really truth, the Book
of Mormon or the Koran? Their "revelatory appearances," at the
hands or machinations of a non-human entity or entities, are very
similar.

As I've said before, some of the most honest, hard-working,
down-to-earth, common-sense people I've known have been
LDS people. So that IS good fruit, indeed.

--Mike