Alice in Wonderland

Morning Dean and All---

I just finished reading Carroll's tale of Alice and I am convinced this was never meant to be a book for a child. My guess is that Carroll was a genius who may have been labeled MAD. He says all people are Mad. I also think that he could have been a mathematician with some knowledge of numerology. 5-7-2 are the numbers of the cards in his book. If I were to take these cards to be representative of the minor arcana of the Tarot deck (poker deck originated from the tarot with the Page thrown out) then I would say his 5-7-2 means that he is writing a tale about strife, competition, changes to come. I think that is why Alice changes so much in his story. I also think he may have dabbled in chemistry, and also a mystic.

Although he makes mention of what looks to be HE information, it is just a splattering here and there. He talks about living beneath the sea. He speaks of a baby that looks like a starfish but is actually a pig with squinty little eyes. Footman are a frog and a fish. Creatures slowly disappear, where you can only see their grins. Watches tell the day but not the time because Time is actually a person. There are lovely lush gardens. Mushrooms that will make you either shrink or grow, depending on which side you eat off. A caterpillar smoking opium--actually says smoking hookah. Definitely high. Alice turns into a serpent, her body becomes long and slithery, especially her neck. The creatures talk about lessons that are only learned beneath the sea. The lessons are a Mystery, Ancient and Modern, with Seaography. Tunnels, doors, and all things drawn must begin with an M--mousetraps, moon and memory. Carroll inserts poems throughout the story, and while Alice is being told about attending a school beneath the sea a poem is inserted & Carroll writes:

Few lines at the beginning:

"You can really have no notion how delightful it will be

"When they take us up and throw us, with lobsters , out to sea!

Few lines near the end:

"What matters it how far we go?" his scaly friend replied,

"There is another shore, you know, upon the other side.

"The further off from England the nearer is to France--

There are other bits and pieces we may considered Carroll to be talking about a HE.

The Duchess (of York?) says, "If everybody would mind their own business"..."the world would go round a deal faster than it does." Alice says' "Which would not be an advantage--Just think what work it would make with the day and night. You see the earth takes twenty-four hours to turn round its axis." He throws in a bit of science off the cuff through out his tale.

But, I think, after reading this book, Carroll is talking about the invasion of England by William the Conqueror, and how he grows old. He talks of soldiers carrying clubs toped off with diamonds, the royal children. There are many kings and queens, but the ruling king and queen were of the suit of hearts---suit of hearts by the way depicts Europe in Tarot symbolism--(at least some decks) The ruling Queen of Hearts in story is more focussed on near the end, and she is quick to behead anyone who crosses her. May be talking about Queen Elizabeth here--and predicting changes that will lead to England's decline. That is my guess anyway. Or, he is writing about King William and Queen Mary who ruled England jointly, and Carroll thinks was England's demise. I am not up on this type of history---so this is a shot in the dark.

He also could be weaving more than one idea through out this story---but who is Alice? A mistress? Is Alice trying to give England a message about the United States at the end of the story--as the poker deck stands for the US, and in the end, Alice says, it is just a pack of cards and runs from then. 3 is the number he likes the best, and things seemed to be grouped by them.

Will see if I can find a web page about Lewis Carroll and his story.

It's a puzzle for sure, perhaps more than one!

Leslee

Hi,

It may interest you to know that Carroll and Tolkien were members of the same secret mystic society at Oxford. I discovered this on The Illuminati Index, a great website. Just type in Tolkien on the site's search engine and it will dig the article out of the archives.

Nikki

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
AstroCafe

To: [email protected]

Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 9:03 PM

Subject: [allplanets-hollow] Alice in Wonderland

Morning Dean and All---

I just finished reading Carroll's tale of Alice and I am convinced this was never meant to be a book for a child. My guess is that Carroll was a genius who may have been labeled MAD. He says all people are Mad. I also think that he could have been a mathematician with some knowledge of numerology. 5-7-2 are the numbers of the cards in his book. If I were to take these cards to be representative of the minor arcana of the Tarot deck (poker deck originated from the tarot with the Page thrown out) then I would say his 5-7-2 means that he is writing a tale about strife, competition, changes to come. I think that is why Alice changes so much in his story. I also think he may have dabbled in chemistry, and also a mystic.

Although he makes mention of what looks to be HE information, it is just a splattering here and there. He talks about living beneath the sea. He speaks of a baby that looks like a starfish but is actually a pig with squinty little eyes. Footman are a frog and a fish. Creatures slowly disappear, where you can only see their grins. Watches tell the day but not the time because Time is actually a person. There are lovely lush gardens. Mushrooms that will make you either shrink or grow, depending on which side you eat off. A caterpillar smoking opium--actually says smoking hookah. Definitely high. Alice turns into a serpent, her body becomes long and slithery, especially her neck. The creatures talk about lessons that are only learned beneath the sea. The lessons are a Mystery, Ancient and Modern, with Seaography. Tunnels, doors, and all things drawn must begin with an M--mousetraps, moon and memory. Carroll inserts poems throughout the story, and while Alice is being told about attending a school beneath the sea a poem is inserted & Carroll writes:

Few lines at the beginning:

"You can really have no notion how delightful it will be

"When they take us up and throw us, with lobsters , out to sea!

Few lines near the end:

"What matters it how far we go?" his scaly friend replied,

"There is another shore, you know, upon the other side.

"The further off from England the nearer is to France--

There are other bits and pieces we may considered Carroll to be talking about a HE.

The Duchess (of York?) says, "If everybody would mind their own business"..."the world would go round a deal faster than it does." Alice says' "Which would not be an advantage--Just think what work it would make with the day and night. You see the earth takes twenty-four hours to turn round its axis." He throws in a bit of science off the cuff through out his tale.

But, I think, after reading this book, Carroll is talking about the invasion of England by William the Conqueror, and how he grows old. He talks of soldiers carrying clubs toped off with diamonds, the royal children. There are many kings and queens, but the ruling king and queen were of the suit of hearts---suit of hearts by the way depicts Europe in Tarot symbolism--(at least some decks) The ruling Queen of Hearts in story is more focussed on near the end, and she is quick to behead anyone who crosses her. May be talking about Queen Elizabeth here--and predicting changes that will lead to England's decline. That is my guess anyway. Or, he is writing about King William and Queen Mary who ruled England jointly, and Carroll thinks was England's demise. I am not up on this type of history---so this is a shot in the dark.

He also could be weaving more than one idea through out this story---but who is Alice? A mistress? Is Alice trying to give England a message about the United States at the end of the story--as the poker deck stands for the US, and in the end, Alice says, it is just a pack of cards and runs from then. 3 is the number he likes the best, and things seemed to be grouped by them.

Will see if I can find a web page about Lewis Carroll and his story.

It's a puzzle for sure, perhaps more than one!

Leslee

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Nikki,

Very interesting information. I'm going to assume that both books are an attempt, in the form of fiction, to pass along info and concepts.

DD

···

Hi,

It may interest you to know that Carroll and Tolkien were members of the same secret mystic society at Oxford. I discovered this on The Illuminati Index, a great website. Just type in Tolkien on the site's search engine and it will dig the article out of the archives.

Nikki

--- In allplanets-hollow@y..., "AstroCafe" <astrocafe@q...> wrote:

There are other bits and pieces we may considered Carroll to

be talking about a HE.

It's a puzzle for sure, perhaps more than one!
Leslee

Leslee,

I think you are right about Carroll. He worked a lot of symbolic
information into ALL of his fiction and poetry.

Read "The Hunting of the Snark," and you'll see what I mean.

--Mike